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Invention topic -Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II
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LordBucifal
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#1 - 2012-04-11 11:23:24 UTC
Hello i want to ask the veterans...if they want to share a Little bit of knowledge for invention. Do you use any descriptors for inventing rigs? like make isk suggests?
I cannot be perceived as competition since this is one time event. Hope i get some info on this subject.

Datacore - Molecular Engineering 2 410 k isk
Datacore - Nanite Engineering 2 600 k isk
Decryptor - Assembly Instructions 1 31.9 mil isk
Cryptic Tuner Data Interface 1 0 isk
Invention runs and chance 5 86.8608%
Cost per actual run 7.58 mil isk

Do you agree with this version using Decryptor here for the better chance of invention.?


Probability ME PE Runs
Assembly Instructions 1.3x -3 2 4

1.2x +1 runs -2 ML 1 PL

59.90% with 4 4 4 skills and meta 1 or should it be meta meta 0.
Sites used were this :

http://www.eve-market-guide.com/t2item.php?id=31185#


and


http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php?base_item=metalevel1&base_chance=40&skill_encryption=4&skill_datacore_1=4&skill_datacore_2=4&decryptor=modifier4&precalculated_chance=absolute
LordBucifal
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#2 - 2012-04-11 11:38:46 UTC
Just a small edit they say that final ME PE Is Medium

Polycarbon Engine Housing II [ME: -5 PE: -2]


1.8x (89.86%)
+4 runs
-5 ML
-2 PL

this the only one i know but is this the Assembly Instructions?
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#3 - 2012-04-11 15:00:28 UTC
Apparently it's possible (never got one myself, hence the apparently) to get ME 0 BPCs for T2 rigs from some mag sites in low/null.

This will be skewing the market on those.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Kalipoli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-04-11 16:05:44 UTC
I tend to not use decryptors at all for anything. Other than ships. which i still rarely use as -4 -4 still tends to be very profitable and i seem to get more consistent invention successes

The way i justify not using them is you are still gambling, even if your perspective success rate is 89% you may only see 50% or 0% as some unlucky people seem to get from time to time.

For the most part a basic -4 -4 bpc will yield a profit anyways. Yes the profit may be lesser than if i had used a decryptor but generally the decryptors for more runs less material waste are more expensive thus meaning that if you don't get a good % on your invention successes you will be losing more isk than if you had used no decryptors at all

Its just a gamble period, its up to you whether you want to place the bet or not
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#5 - 2012-04-11 21:30:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
LordBucifal wrote:
Polycarbon Engine Housing II [ME: -5 PE: -2]

I often go for a one run ME -1 PE -1 BPC when doing rigs. The decryptor is typically about 8m, and can often save you from having to buy T2 salvage worth far more than that, and the increased invention cost. Do the math first though, as some T2 salvage is a lot more expensive than others.

ME -1 = 20% waste and ME -5 = 60% waste on a 10% base BPC.
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-04-11 22:37:39 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
LordBucifal wrote:
Polycarbon Engine Housing II [ME: -5 PE: -2]

I often go for a one run ME -1 PE -1 BPC when doing rigs. The decryptor is typically about 8m, and can often save you from having to buy T2 salvage worth far more than that, and the increased invention cost. Do the math first though, as some T2 salvage is a lot more expensive than others.

ME -1 = 20% waste and ME -5 = 60% waste on a 10% base BPC.


An excellent post; hopefully people will read and heed it. +1
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2012-04-11 23:55:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Feel free to correct me as I'm doing this without a spreadsheet, and using eve-central Jita prices.

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II BPO @ 132.100m

http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/items/blueprint/rig_blueprint/medium_polycarbon_engine_housing_i_blueprint/
http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/items/blueprint/rig_blueprint/medium_polycarbon_engine_housing_ii_blueprint
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php
http://eve-central.com/

Single-crystal Superalloy I-beam @ 10.550m
Power Circuit @ 7.388m
Interface Circuit @ 0.266m
Datacore - Molecular Engineering @ 0.288m
Datacore - Nanite Engineering @ 0.300m
BPC @ ?
Level 4 skills

Material Cost

Base: 4, 3, 4
ME0 = 10%
ME-1 = 20%: 5, 4, 5 (= 83.632m) req. Calibration Data @ 6.998m chance = 53.08%
ME-2 = 30%: 5, 4, 5 (= 83.632m) req. Advanced Theories @ 13.300m [+1 run] chance = 57.91%
ME-3 = 40%: 6, 4, 6 (= 94.448m) req. Operation Handbook @ 7.550m [+2 run] chance = 48.26%
ME-4 = 50%: 6, 5, 6 (= 101.836m) chance = 48.26%
ME-5 = 60%: 6, 5, 6 (= 101.836m) req. Assembly Instructions @ 30.000m [+4 run] chance = 86.86%
ME-6 = 70%: 7, 5, 7 (= 112.652m) req. Circuitry Schematics @ 4.200m [+9 run] chance = 28.95%

Invention Cost

Invention Cost = (BPC Cost + 2 * 0.288m + 2 * 0.388m + decryptor cost ) / chance / runs

Invention cost per rig, not including BPC as I don't know how much it is worth
ME-1: 15.730m (+ 83.632m = 99.362m)
ME-2: 12.650m (+ 83.632m = 96.282m)
ME-3: 6.149m (+ 94.448m = 100.597m)
ME-4: 2.801m (+ 101.836m = 104.637m)
ME-5: 7.219m (+ 101.836m = 109.055m)
ME-6: 1.918m (+ 112.652 = 114.570m)

Assuming I didn't do anything really stupid (very possible as this is off the cuff), it looks like ME-2 is the best deal using an Advanced Theories decryptor, but THIS DOESN'T INCLUDE BPC COSTS which must be considered for an accurate result.

Also note that it takes a long time to copy a max run rig BPC compared to a one run BPC, so ME-1 is more time efficient if you are making your own copies, as it doesn't require a max run BPC. A max run BPC is also a lot more costly to create (lab time) or buy than a one run BPC.

Hence ME-1 would be my choice, unless I found a dirt-cheap source of max run BPC.
LordBucifal
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#8 - 2012-04-13 07:48:43 UTC
Thank you for the answers especialy the pilot Tau Cabalander whici also received a like, for his profesionality...basicaly it all goes down to the numbers.
ok time to make a new spread sheet.: thx allShocked
LordParj
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#9 - 2012-04-18 11:52:54 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
Feel free to correct me as I'm doing this without a spreadsheet, and using eve-central Jita prices.

Medium Polycarbon Engine Housing II BPO @ 132.100m

http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/items/blueprint/rig_blueprint/medium_polycarbon_engine_housing_i_blueprint/
http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/items/blueprint/rig_blueprint/medium_polycarbon_engine_housing_ii_blueprint
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/invention_chance.php
http://eve-central.com/

Single-crystal Superalloy I-beam @ 10.550m
Power Circuit @ 7.388m
Interface Circuit @ 0.266m
Datacore - Molecular Engineering @ 0.288m
Datacore - Nanite Engineering @ 0.300m
BPC @ ?
Level 4 skills

Material Cost

Base: 4, 3, 4
ME0 = 10%
ME-1 = 20%: 5, 4, 5 (= 83.632m) req. Calibration Data @ 6.998m chance = 53.08%
ME-2 = 30%: 5, 4, 5 (= 83.632m) req. Advanced Theories @ 13.300m [+1 run] chance = 57.91%
ME-3 = 40%: 6, 4, 6 (= 94.448m) req. Operation Handbook @ 7.550m [+2 run] chance = 48.26%
ME-4 = 50%: 6, 5, 6 (= 101.836m) chance = 48.26%
ME-5 = 60%: 6, 5, 6 (= 101.836m) req. Assembly Instructions @ 30.000m [+4 run] chance = 86.86%
ME-6 = 70%: 7, 5, 7 (= 112.652m) req. Circuitry Schematics @ 4.200m [+9 run] chance = 28.95%

Invention Cost

Invention Cost = (BPC Cost + 2 * 0.288m + 2 * 0.388m + decryptor cost ) / chance / runs

Invention cost per rig, not including BPC as I don't know how much it is worth
ME-1: 15.730m (+ 83.632m = 99.362m)
ME-2: 12.650m (+ 83.632m = 96.282m)
ME-3: 6.149m (+ 94.448m = 100.597m)
ME-4: 2.801m (+ 101.836m = 104.637m)
ME-5: 7.219m (+ 101.836m = 109.055m)
ME-6: 1.918m (+ 112.652 = 114.570m)

Assuming I didn't do anything really stupid (very possible as this is off the cuff), it looks like ME-2 is the best deal using an Advanced Theories decryptor, but THIS DOESN'T INCLUDE BPC COSTS which must be considered for an accurate result.

Also note that it takes a long time to copy a max run rig BPC compared to a one run BPC, so ME-1 is more time efficient if you are making your own copies, as it doesn't require a max run BPC. A max run BPC is also a lot more costly to create (lab time) or buy than a one run BPC.

Hence ME-1 would be my choice, unless I found a dirt-cheap source of max run BPC.



Ok ok, but what about the Bpc they have to be reserched like close to perfect ME? PE ? of only max run is the only thing they look for? thx in advance...
What would be intresting to see is how much is withaut Dectriptors and with, and from that, cos thing is some dryptors ar more found than onthers. :)
Because when you see how much is withaut decryptors you can compair wheater to sell the perfect alloy bar like raw and you get more money. onther than inventing constructing and see you will sell only at market price and used 1 bar too many and the price will be with 10 mil above the last selling so you lost more bars (cos of me -5 example) and you lost money in inventing .i never done it that is why im asking.
Thank you in advance any way even if the last q is not answerd.
Later guys.
Ishanmae
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-04-18 12:42:37 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
LordBucifal wrote:
Polycarbon Engine Housing II [ME: -5 PE: -2]

I often go for a one run ME -1 PE -1 BPC when doing rigs. The decryptor is typically about 8m, and can often save you from having to buy T2 salvage worth far more than that, and the increased invention cost. Do the math first though, as some T2 salvage is a lot more expensive than others.

ME -1 = 20% waste and ME -5 = 60% waste on a 10% base BPC.



Yup, that's what I tend to do as well...

It can bring the upper end T2 salvage "waste" to 0. Meaning sometimes about 20M less spent on a rig. But that's only worth it if your skills allow you to get frequent enough successes.

If you spend an extra 8M on each invention attempt, and only 1 out of 10 succeeds, it definitely won't be worth it ;)
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#11 - 2012-04-18 15:32:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
LordParj wrote:
Ok ok, but what about the Bpc they have to be reserched like close to perfect ME? PE ? of only max run is the only thing they look for? thx in advance...

The ME and PE of BPC used in invention doesn't matter. This is why you can find 0 + 0 BPCs on contracts.

One builds from researched BPO / BPC though, as some T2 items require the meta 0 item in the materials list.
LordBucifal
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#12 - 2012-04-23 08:58:20 UTC
For those that do not know the full decriptor list from the invention chance calculator :

  • None

    • -4 ML -4 PL

  • Circuitry Schematics (~4,249,000.00 jita price now)

    • -6 ML -3 PL

    If you can assimilate these ideas into a Minmatar invention job it could greatly multiply your output runs.

    Probability Multiplier: -40% (0.6)
    Max. Run Modifier: +9
    Mineral Efficiency Modifier: -2
    Production Efficiency Modifier: +1


  • Operation Handbook (~6,547,989.99 jita price now)

    • -3 ML 0 PL

    As long as you can decipher the theories there is some good common sense stuff in here that can give all around benefits to Minmatar invention jobs.

    Probability Multiplier: N/A
    Max. Run Modifier: +2
    Mineral Efficiency Modifier: +1
    Production Efficiency Modifier: +4


  • Calibration Data (~6,668,776.82 jita price now)

    • -1 ML -1 PL

    The Calibration Data gives insightful information into the nature of Minmatar invention jobs, but lacks inspirational touches.

    Probability Multiplier: +10% (1.1)
    Max. Run Modifier: N/A
    Mineral Efficiency Modifier: +3
    Production Efficiency Modifier: +3

  • Advanced Theories (~10,600,000.00 jita price now)

    • -2 ML 1 PL

    The scientific jargon contained herein could cause mental meltdowns, but if you can extract anything of use it's great for Minmatar invention jobs.

    Probability Multiplier: +20% (1.2x)
    Max. Run Modifier: +1
    Mineral Efficiency Modifier: +2
    Production Efficiency Modifier: +5

  • Assembly Instructions (~40,900,000.00 jita price now)

    • -5 ML -2 PL

    Solid instructions that even an idiot can follow that improve your probability of a successful Minmatar invention job immensely.

    Probability Multiplier: +80% (1.8)
    Max. Run Modifier: +4
    Mineral Efficiency Modifier: -1
    Production Efficiency Modifier: +2
    LordBucifal
    Kenshin.
    Fraternity.
    #13 - 2012-04-23 09:18:44 UTC  |  Edited by: LordBucifal
    So my final word on this for me, due to the fact of the spawning of the decriptors as well the 2 decryptor i will use are
    Calibration Data (~6,668,776.82 jita price now), Advanced Theories (~10,600,000.00 jita price now).
    Also this is the last option but still is in the area Operation Handbook (~6,547,989.99 jita price now).
    Strrog
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #14 - 2012-07-07 09:07:27 UTC
    *head explodes with all the data*

    maybe should look up beginners invention guide or something any recommendations?
    Zifrian
    The Frog Pond
    Ribbit.
    #15 - 2012-07-07 12:16:46 UTC