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Raising Money for the EVE We Deserve

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Daneirkus Auralex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2012-04-10 18:05:48 UTC
Aidan Brooder wrote:

And a bad idea to make CCP's development work for the game based on "Loooksie! We got 50K for developing XYZ! Lets get to it!"


A fair point.. Even if we were to raise enough to hire a dev team (a few hundred thousand for a year?) the ramp-up and turnaround time would be very long. Focus more efficiently applied, I think, to peripheral projects
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#42 - 2012-04-10 18:15:34 UTC
Bluddwolf wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
CCP got itself into a mess growing too fast and uncontrolled. They basically imploded – and we got the crap that was 2010/11.
Huh??

"Growing too fast and uncontrolled" - EVE has been fairly steady at 400k subscription base for almost its entire existance. Sure, it may have ticked up or down a few 10k, but for the most part steady.
CCP ≠ EVE.

EVE subscriptions have grown at a fairly steady rate, aside from the dip last year.
This is something quite different and apart from how CCP has grown, and that is/was the entire problem. They took that steady growth and ran with it, putting themselves in a situation where they started to sacrifice the source of that steady growth in the hope of it causing a massive growth instead, and they put resources behind this venture that didn't match what their one key source of income would support…

So yes, CCP grew too fast and with too little control compared to the steady growth EVE provided, and that growth on CCP's part caused EVE not to grow as steadily as before. They basically managed to pyramid-scheme themselves.
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#43 - 2012-04-10 18:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
CCP ≠ EVE.

Agreed.

Also ironic. A company so successful at devloping/hosting a game for a bunch of increasingly bloodthirsty space pilots facing so many problems... To get a game developed that solely deals with sinking your fangs into some juicy target in the first place. ;)

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#44 - 2012-04-10 21:00:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
Bluddwolf wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
CCP got itself into a mess growing too fast and uncontrolled. They basically imploded – and we got the crap that was 2010/11.

If EVE can't survive and improve as a 15USD subscription game WITH a microtransaction system on top of that, in these F2P-times, then it will go the way of the dinosaurs.


Huh??

"Growing too fast and uncontrolled" - EVE has been fairly steady at 400k subscription base for almost its entire existance. Sure, it may have ticked up or down a few 10k, but for the most part steady.

Its micortransactions are limited and at the present completely cosmetic. I certainly hope it stays that way.
You do know that CCP ≠ EVE right?

*MENTAL NOTE EDIT* Read entire thread. Yeah, what Tippia said Oops
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2012-04-10 21:09:54 UTC
You don't give kickstarters to old and established games, you give money to new projects to developers with no money.

This idea is stupid. Donate money to children or something, not videogames.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
Nura Taron
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-04-10 21:16:23 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
Is it time to put our money where our mouths are?

We're already paying a subscription.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#47 - 2012-04-10 21:21:16 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
This idea is stupid. Donate money to children or something, not videogames.
Nah. Donating money to videogames is good. Blink
Daneirkus Auralex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2012-04-11 04:57:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nah. Donating money to videogames is good. Blink


With a goal of $900k, they have raised nearly $3 million. To you naysayers, sorry - but it's hard not to imagine what CCP and 3rd parties could accomplish with funding of this magnitude.
Daneirkus Auralex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2012-04-11 04:58:43 UTC
Nura Taron wrote:

We're already paying a subscription.


Read the thread please.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2012-04-11 05:26:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
such a scheme would skew CCP's incentives for using the subscriptions fees to develop features/content for EVE.

if EVE players are happy to pay extra for features that are required for EVE to stay competitive in the marketplace, then a larger share of your 15$/month can go towards WoD development \o/

your assumption that you can "donate" some extra without crowding out CCP investment is naive.
Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2012-04-11 05:45:16 UTC
Serene Repose wrote:
Let's have a cookie sale! Car wash?


Bikini CAR WASH!!!!!!
Mathias Hex
#52 - 2012-04-11 14:52:54 UTC
Shot down by spitfire Sad
Please allow me to rephrase.
Corporations in general pretty much have way more than enough money coming in to do what they want.

Corporations ONLY goal is to make money! Guess who controls that money, you got it the big man on the top floor. Now the devs might actually care about the game and want to make it better, and I'm sure if they could they would dump more resources into the game instead of the big guys pockets.

Now lets get back to the big shots, you know the guys on the top floor. There only desire in life is to have more money! It doesnt matter how much they have they need more, think of it as an addiction. They will invest just enough money in a product to make it profitable. It doesnt matter to them if the game is awesome or good, it just has to hold enough subs to make a profit.

Giving CCP or any corporation more money will NOT make a better product. All it will achieve is making extremely rich people just a little bit more rich, pennies to them.

I recall one night in a nightclub called the matrix, there I was... Mother of god there I am! Holy f**k.
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
#53 - 2012-04-11 22:56:16 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:

We live in an age where social media and micro-donations have the potential to amass substantial funding for minimal effort. Candidates could include new Clear Skies episodes (though not created by CCP), a feature length EVE movie based on the Cinematic Trailer, or something else. We're told that adding tessalation effects would require a whole year. What if we could speed that up?

...

In this thread, please discuss ideas, suggestions for fundraising items, or reasons why this shouldn't be. With our numbers united, we quite literally have the power to realize almost anything we can imagine.


I love this idea in principle, a community lead arts fund could get the EVE Outtakes guy, Mike Azariah and John Rourke on a true-to-lore mini series well worth watching.

BUT - I've a "professional" wariness for any suggestion coming from to Goons / Test / Reddit direction. I love you guys but you have keen skills at lifting the material burdens of the weak-minded. I'd have to insist on an upstanding community leader like Chribba being a trustee of any funds generated.

Mathias Hex wrote:

Now lets get back to the big shots, you know the guys on the top floor. There only desire in life is to have more money! It doesnt matter how much they have they need more, think of it as an addiction. They will invest just enough money in a product to make it profitable. It doesnt matter to them if the game is awesome or good, it just has to hold enough subs to make a profit.

Giving CCP or any corporation more money will NOT make a better product. All it will achieve is making extremely rich people just a little bit more rich, pennies to them.


I can't agree. Big H's first priority is always going to be his family, but his ambitions for EVE are inclusive and part of an overarching plan that you really have to admire. I absolutely would trust him to manage a community fund but I don't think it would be fair to ask him to do it. He has enough on his plate as it is.

Again, in principle yes great idea, in practice - err, I'm sceptical.
Solhild
Doomheim
#54 - 2012-04-11 23:03:57 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
tl;dr should we generate grassroots funding for 3rd party content (such as Clear Skies) and/or accelerated development of features, such as tessalation?

Is it time to put our money where our mouths are?


Reading thread after thread of this idea and that idea, the thought occurred - if CCP can't do everything players want them to do right now, why can't we give them that ability?

Some may object that we already pay monthly subscriptions, and therefore shouldn't have to contribute any more. While I'd agree - but I'd also note that as a corporation, CCP's output is constrained by limited resources. Logic follows that by increasing their resources, we can increase their output. I'd bet that many of us wouldn't mind kicking in a few extra bucks if it meant getting a desired feature twice a fast.

We live in an age where social media and micro-donations have the potential to amass substantial funding for minimal effort. Candidates could include new Clear Skies episodes (though not created by CCP), a feature length EVE movie based on the Cinematic Trailer, or something else. We're told that adding tessalation effects would require a whole year. What if we could speed that up?

Anyone who's watched that trailer has probably seen top-rated comments such as "I"M THROWING MY MONEY AT THE SCREEN BUT NOTHING IS HAPPENING" - we're a passionate community with appeal that extends well beyond our current player-base. And ME3 generated $80,000 in a matter of weeks. Instead of watching those wallets bound off of computer monitors around the world, perhaps we should hold out a bucket? This phenomena has already pervaded the music industry, with fan-funded albums. Being a "community of firsts," I can't think of anywhere more appropriate to create the changes we seek, ourselves. Kickstarter, Fundly... the possibilities are endless.

In this thread, please discuss ideas, suggestions for fundraising items, or reasons why this shouldn't be. With our numbers united, we quite literally have the power to realize almost anything we can imagine.


I'll happily sub in 5k or so but would want a stake in it.
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
#55 - 2012-04-11 23:41:41 UTC
Snowflake Tem wrote:

BUT - I've a "professional" wariness for any suggestion coming from to Goons / Test / Reddit direction. I love you guys but you have keen skills at lifting the material burdens of the weak-minded. I'd have to insist on an upstanding community leader like Chribba being a trustee of any funds generated.


conceited of me to quote myself i know but;
Trebor, having mad storyboarding skills, management knouse and more monies than me - plus having being elected n all - would be an ideal guy to tap to look after a project like this. Sure he's got the time for us.
Snowflake Tem
The Order of Symbolic Measures
#56 - 2012-04-12 00:13:43 UTC
damnit, you've actually got me hooked on this now.

I'd pay sound pounds sterling for a five minute vid pooling the graphic, modelling, storytelling and voice-over prowess of all EVE players willing to contribute to an in game lore description of the circumstances that lead up to and culminated in the destruction of Jita. - if it happens ...

I challenge you to make it possible.
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2012-04-12 00:18:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lt Pizi
IF you want to spent money on a game

hereya go

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1451923705/make-leisure-suit-larry-come-again

best game ever made !

Edit : CCP HIRE AL LOWE !!

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Daneirkus Auralex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2012-04-12 05:36:00 UTC
Snowflake Tem wrote:

BUT - I've a "professional" wariness for any suggestion coming from to Goons / Test / Reddit direction. I love you guys but you have keen skills at lifting the material burdens of the weak-minded. I'd have to insist on an upstanding community leader like Chribba being a trustee of any funds generated.

I can understand the origin of your wariness; in fact, I believe a lot of the knee-jerk negative reactions in this thread stem from my alliance tag. But please do separate in-game ISK swindling (not even my cup of tea, personally) from real life goodwill.. this thread is about generating ideas and assessing willingness - and as I have a lot going on, I'm not even sure that I'd be able to organize it myself. Besides, with Kickstarter, you don't even get funds until goals are met - and in this case (as I indicated in my email to them) I wouldn't be the recipient. Otherwise, I do appreciate your cautious enthusiasm.

Mathias Hex wrote:
Corporations ONLY goal is to make money! Guess who controls that money, you got it the big man on the top floor.

I disagree - not all corporations exist solely to make money. Were CCP a traditional, publicly traded company, I'd agree that profit maximization for shareholders would be the foremost goal. There are, however, many ways to maximize profit - including wholly committing to developing the best products in the present irregardless of cost, in the hope of future returns. Either way, its been shown time and time again that CCP is nothing, if not traditional.

CEOs serve at the behest of the corporations Board of Directors. While its hard to make inferences about corporate governance within a company as remote and non-transparent as CCP (and from what I can tell its non-public with 3 or 4 major shareholders), CEOs generally DON'T have full reign over a company's assets, including cash, as they are provided oversight by the board of directors. At least, that's how its supposed to work - we all can cite examples of non-functioning boards.

Florestan Bronstein wrote:
such a scheme would skew CCP's incentives for using the subscriptions fees to develop features/content for EVE.

Again - I think through consensus and for many reasons, we've abandoned the idea of pitching in money for features. Lets focus on some 3rd party content, such as films, episodes, or other immersion-enhancing creations that we could come up with. Ideas, anyone?
Ai Shun
#59 - 2012-04-12 05:38:29 UTC
Daneirkus Auralex wrote:
tl;dr should we generate grassroots funding for 3rd party content (such as Clear Skies) and/or accelerated development of features, such as tessalation?


If the funding goal was clearly set by CCP and they had milestones and objectives that had to be reached with appropriate penalties / returns for failure I would fully support this. I don't mind spending a bit more money on the game if it helps inject some funds for them. But I would want to be sure that they either performed and delivered what I funded within a reasonable time-frame or that I would get a return somehow if they did not.
Daneirkus Auralex
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#60 - 2012-04-12 06:10:05 UTC
For the record, here's the request for information I just submitted using the petition system. Hopefully they can route it correctly; I've yet to receive a reply to my email.

Quote:
Hi,

I've recently sent a mail to info@ccpgames.com about this matter, but have yet to see a response. I figured it wise to send an inquiry through the petition system as well.

There has been some interest within the player community for the creation of a player-driven fundraising campaign. While I wouldn't make assumptions about CCP's balance sheet, additional funding from players (along with appropriate facilitation and guidance by CCP) could have the potential to create more content for our universe - whether in-game or out. And though I'm aware that this sort of effort is unorthodox, CCP and its community are also unorthodox. If the idea has value anywhere, it would be here. I'd imagine that the effort alone has marketing value.

At this exploratory stage, I'd like to know a) whether CCP's corporate policies allow goodwill receipt of funds beyond subscription fees, and b) if there are any particular efforts that you could suggest we, the community, apply our effort towards. Thus far, reactions on the EVE Forums have suggested that attempting to help accelerate game development could be ineffective. There are, however, many other ways to enrich the EVE experience. A hard copy of the Chronicles, or a feature length web film based on the recent theatrical trailer are a couple examples.

I eagerly await your response.


Sincerely,

[my name]