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I can't wait for the highsec loot nerf.

Author
Ren Oren
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2012-04-10 19:06:15 UTC
blueprint toon wrote:
TkAlligator38 wrote:
blueprint toon wrote:
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:
blueprint toon wrote:
see this is always the problem with ccp due to the fact that they think with a socialist mindset. they nerf succesful ppl down wht they truly need to do for miners is put out a mining ship that hold more ore than you can mine in 10 damn minuets. and mines faster. all these new frigging ships over the years what we need want and deserve is a t3 mining ship and a capital mining ship and capital mining drones. buff the miners up dont drag everyone down to the same level. think like a capitalist not a socialist!!



No.


again someone who has no clue how things should work taking money from the rich will not help the poor


While I appreciate the fact you've been watching a documentary on politics and want to share your findings with us, you must have missed the news that income for miners has increased.


you simply misunderstand mining sux they boosting mining by nerfing missions and drone drops therefore taking from one group to help another nerfing one side to help the low side is wrong. make ming work better because it stinks like it is which is why most ppl do not mine. the pay is too low a miner in hi sec is lucky to make 4 mill and hour 10 if your lucky a mission runner can make 20 on bounties alone so dont
nerf missioning. think like a capitalist and make mining yield faster. or give bigger ships or even more sensable make mining ships with better tanks. so i would have to say most of you knee jerk and miss the fact that taking from one group to boost the other is a bad idea



http://www.evenews24.com/2012/04/06/jesters-trek-stool/

you're welcome
Adunh Slavy
#22 - 2012-04-10 19:26:03 UTC
blueprint toon wrote:

nerf missioning. think like a capitalist and make mining yield faster. or give bigger ships or even more sensable make mining ships with better tanks. so i would have to say most of you knee jerk and miss the fact that taking from one group to boost the other is a bad idea


You seem to be misunderstanding the fundamentals and the problem. The issue CCP is attempting to fix is too much ISK and too many minerals.

The prices of minerals were being forced down for years because of over supply. Adding a new and better mining ship does not solve an over supply problem, it will only make the problem worse.

If there is a socialist/capitalist analogy to be made here it is, ratters/missioners/etc were being subsidized by taking away the profits of miners and industrialists. By making mining the by far primary source of minerals, the division of labor is more properly expressed; as any true capitalist would know.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-10 19:34:42 UTC
Raven Ether wrote:
Morphite also has low consumption by manufacturing processes, people DO mine it. Mercoxit is the primary source for it.

Meta 1-4 SHOULD be dropping from NPCs

Just not T1. Besides, T1 is not used that much, and its main role right now is to devalue mining. Very glad to see T1 drops gone from NPCs.


Depends on your perspective. As a regular mission runner (among other things), I rather enjoyed all those T1/Meta-0 drops from mission rats. Passed it over to my buddy to be reprocessed, who then passed the mats to another guy who made us ships/mods/ammo.

We could do this without ever needing to see an asteroid belt.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#24 - 2012-04-10 19:41:30 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Raven Ether wrote:
Morphite also has low consumption by manufacturing processes, people DO mine it. Mercoxit is the primary source for it.

Meta 1-4 SHOULD be dropping from NPCs

Just not T1. Besides, T1 is not used that much, and its main role right now is to devalue mining. Very glad to see T1 drops gone from NPCs.


Depends on your perspective. As a regular mission runner (among other things), I rather enjoyed all those T1/Meta-0 drops from mission rats. Passed it over to my buddy to be reprocessed, who then passed the mats to another guy who made us ships/mods/ammo.

We could do this without ever needing to see an asteroid belt.


I enjoyed it too, but then what is the point of training to be a miner? I routinely outmined 3 hulks by looting L4s.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#25 - 2012-04-10 20:01:03 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Raven Ether wrote:
Morphite also has low consumption by manufacturing processes, people DO mine it. Mercoxit is the primary source for it.

Meta 1-4 SHOULD be dropping from NPCs

Just not T1. Besides, T1 is not used that much, and its main role right now is to devalue mining. Very glad to see T1 drops gone from NPCs.


Depends on your perspective. As a regular mission runner (among other things), I rather enjoyed all those T1/Meta-0 drops from mission rats. Passed it over to my buddy to be reprocessed, who then passed the mats to another guy who made us ships/mods/ammo.

We could do this without ever needing to see an asteroid belt.


I enjoyed it too, but then what is the point of training to be a miner? I routinely outmined 3 hulks by looting L4s.


I wouldn't go as far as to say I outdid hulks, much less three, but it was certainly a respectable amount. More than enough for our purposes.

As to why anyone would train to be a miner. Easy. Because when you graduate to mining in low- or null-sec, you'll make more isk/hour than any mission runner possibly could.
qDoctor Strangelove
Doomheim
#26 - 2012-04-10 21:01:40 UTC
L4 missions, Anomaly ratting and Incursions were all fixed when the BOT miners were banned.
Once they start banning a few more market bots, the markets will become interesting to.

This will ONLY affect the elite that have isk and do not want to work for it in game.
Miners and producers will be able to build a battleship in the SAME time as they did before, but they can then trade that ship into a fitted T2 cruiser. Just a few weeks ago, they needed 3 battleships to do the same.

*golf clap*
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#27 - 2012-04-10 21:18:42 UTC
qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
L4 missions, Anomaly ratting and Incursions were all fixed when the BOT miners were banned.
Once they start banning a few more market bots, the markets will become interesting to.

This will ONLY affect the elite that have isk and do not want to work for it in game.
Miners and producers will be able to build a battleship in the SAME time as they did before, but they can then trade that ship into a fitted T2 cruiser. Just a few weeks ago, they needed 3 battleships to do the same.

*golf clap*


Can't say I agree with the conclusion, but I do think that the state of the market will hurt some more than others.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#28 - 2012-04-10 21:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Rinn
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Depends on your perspective. As a regular mission runner (among other things), I rather enjoyed all those T1/Meta-0 drops from mission rats. Passed it over to my buddy to be reprocessed, who then passed the mats to another guy who made us ships/mods/ammo.

We could do this without ever needing to see an asteroid belt.


From the perspective of a miner, why the heck are minerals appearing without being mined?

qDoctor Strangelove wrote:
L4 missions, Anomaly ratting and Incursions were all fixed when the BOT miners were banned.
Once they start banning a few more market bots, the markets will become interesting to.


And now mining is being fixed by removing mining-with-guns. Once they start banning mission bots and remove meta-0 loot from NPCs, mining will become interesting. There are more play styles in this game than just running missions to provide the materials to build the ammo so you can run missions.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2012-04-10 21:45:04 UTC
blueprint toon wrote:
see this is always the problem with ccp due to the fact that they think with a socialist mindset. they nerf succesful ppl down wht they truly need to do for miners is put out a mining ship that hold more ore than you can mine in 10 damn minuets. and mines faster. all these new frigging ships over the years what we need want and deserve is a t3 mining ship and a capital mining ship and capital mining drones. buff the miners up dont drag everyone down to the same level. think like a capitalist not a socialist!!

i agree

the fact I can buy and sell blueprint toon about eight million times should permit me to blanket eveo with 8 million of my posts every time it opens its stupid mouth
Aryth
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-04-10 21:53:54 UTC
blueprint toon wrote:
see this is always the problem with ccp due to the fact that they think with a socialist mindset. they nerf succesful ppl down wht they truly need to do for miners is put out a mining ship that hold more ore than you can mine in 10 damn minuets. and mines faster. all these new frigging ships over the years what we need want and deserve is a t3 mining ship and a capital mining ship and capital mining drones. buff the miners up dont drag everyone down to the same level. think like a capitalist not a socialist!!



I would normally never post in this horrible cesspit of a forum. But when I saw this post linked, I knew my duty.

You rage on you proud little carebear. Fight the man. Rage against the Machine. Goons support you!

Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.

Creator of Burn Jita

Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#31 - 2012-04-10 21:55:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
blueprint toon wrote:
see this is always the problem with ccp due to the fact that they think with a socialist mindset. they nerf succesful ppl down wht they truly need to do for miners is put out a mining ship that hold more ore than you can mine in 10 damn minuets. and mines faster. all these new frigging ships over the years what we need want and deserve is a t3 mining ship and a capital mining ship and capital mining drones. buff the miners up dont drag everyone down to the same level. think like a capitalist not a socialist!!

That would make it too easy to simply "afk content".

Recall, the minerals you mine are free (right~) so CCP has to get their pound of flesh elsewhere, ie: making you drag stacks of ore to your orca every 3 minutes.

I would love, however, fighter-miners only useable by Supercarriers (mining fit, of course). Yeah, currently the miners exist a lot/mostly in highsec...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#32 - 2012-04-10 21:58:00 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
From the perspective of a miner, why the heck are minerals appearing without being mined?

The rats mine them I suppose.

Even in nullsec, there's dumb rats who mine and somehow (no idea how) refine it down to millions and millions of tritanium which they cart around. Not sure why they do that, any miner would know better but meh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#33 - 2012-04-10 21:59:55 UTC
blueprint toon wrote:
think like a capitalist and make mining yield faster. or give bigger ships or even more sensable make mining ships with better tanks. so i would have to say most of you knee jerk and miss the fact that taking from one group to boost the other is a bad idea


Or you could think like an economist and realise that increasing production will only reduce prices further. If you don't take loot away from NPCs (drone poo included), increasing the production of mining will simply make life worse for miners, because they will have to mine more in order to make the same income.

A proper capitalist would pick the industry that generates the most profits, rather than engaging in socialist thinking and demanding better income from whatever industry they've chosen to engage in. The fact that you cannot even grasp the simple concept of the impact of supply on price, and then further confuse the viewpoints of capitalism and socialism, suggests that you have a lot to learn about this topic before you consider posting again.

Capitalism: pick an industry to make a profit from, invest in the capital to participate in that industry, then drive the workers' wages down to control costs while continuing to service your production capital. This has been the definition of Capitalism since the term was defined by Karl Marx.

If CCP were taking a "Socialist" approach, they wouldn't be removing loot from NPCs, they'd be making sure that the loot gets delivered to miners to refine.
blueprint toon
lava planet interaction Corporation
#34 - 2012-04-11 19:09:20 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
[quote=blueprint toon]

Capitalism: pick an industry to make a profit from, invest in the capital to participate in that industry, then drive the workers' wages down to control costs while continuing to service your production capital. This has been the definition of Capitalism since the term was defined by Karl Marx.



anything marx said about capitalism was a lie please stop listening to your liberal teachers marx hatted capitalism at his very core
Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
#35 - 2012-04-12 14:33:21 UTC
blueprint toon wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
[quote=blueprint toon]

Capitalism: pick an industry to make a profit from, invest in the capital to participate in that industry, then drive the workers' wages down to control costs while continuing to service your production capital. This has been the definition of Capitalism since the term was defined by Karl Marx.



anything marx said about capitalism was a lie please stop listening to your liberal teachers marx hatted capitalism at his very core


The fact that Karl Marx hated the effects of capitalism on the proletariat (the peopple that do not own production forces) does not derail from the fact that Karl Marx did make one of the best analyses of the workings of capitalism up until now.
The problem with Political Marxism is that it ignores the notion that human beeings are a selfish lot.

p.s. Libelarism means that a human should have the liberty to act as he or she pleases, culturally politically and economically. the economic system that belongs to liberalism is capitalism.

p.p.s I know that liberalism currently means something else in the united states, but the language of this forum is English and not American :P
papamike
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2012-04-12 14:57:09 UTC  |  Edited by: papamike
The real question is what would hitler (ah... Zee Fuhrer) do?

Unbelievable that a name like that is considered crass whilst shitfight is a-ok
Adunh Slavy
#37 - 2012-04-12 15:05:05 UTC
Nimrod vanHall wrote:

p.s. Libelarism means that a human should have the liberty to act as he or she pleases, culturally politically and economically. the economic system that belongs to liberalism is capitalism.



"Libertarianism" is the word better used in the US, or laissez-faire. They are closer to the traditional European use of "liberal". A number of Americans may disagree, but this is mainly due to the fact that Libertarianisim is a subset of the republican party, and both the democrats and the neo-cons and moral majority boobs (who were democrats until the late 50s and early 70s), want to make it a dirty word.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

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