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New Dev Blog: Carebearing 2.0

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EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#201 - 2012-04-10 18:06:26 UTC
Skye Aurorae wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Skye Aurorae wrote:

So are the scrap drops going to be in piles to reflect that this loot entry 1 corresponds with a mining laser and loot entry 2 corresponds with a 425mm railgun - will the second entry get more metal scraps?

any t1 mod drop is a single unit of metal scraps, no variation, per an earlier clarification



There are rats that drop piles of items - look at the hauler spawns for example either the pirate belt spawns or the couriers leaving stations. Clearly the functionality exists.

right, but greyscale has confirmed it's going to work the way I said
gfldex
#202 - 2012-04-10 18:06:44 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Unless I am mistaken, one can upgrade space, or do I misunderstand the system as it stands now?


You can but it's a pain in the rear. You have to mine crap to be able to upgrade. If you stop mining, you will have to mine crap again.

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#203 - 2012-04-10 18:07:10 UTC
Sarmatiko wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
St Mio wrote:

3. Are you guys aware that when you added deadspace Invulnerability fields, Angel Cartel became the only faction dropping cruiser A-type loot in highsec?


3) I don't know what's up with this one, sorry Smile


CCP Spitfire stated in this thread almost 2 months ago that this is known problem and fix is underway and you still "dont know what's up"?
Anyone who can open contracts on TQ will not find any Gistum C-Type Invulnerability Field module. But there are tons of A-type because you put them in 4/10 sites.


Sorry, I should've been clearer: *I* don't know what's up with this, because it's not something that I, personally, have looked into or indeed know all that much about. I only replied to the question because it'd be rude to reply to 1 and 2 but not 3. If there's already been an official statement about this then I defer to whatever that statement said Smile
Foreman Waters
Capital Gents
#204 - 2012-04-10 18:08:20 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


While the seeding of asteroids is more-or-less correlated with system sec, the two are separate systems, and we're not adjusting the makeup of asteroids in drone regions right now.



Bless you.

<-- Happy Indy toon
Adunh Slavy
#205 - 2012-04-10 18:10:27 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Adunh Slavy wrote:
Unless I am mistaken, one can upgrade space, or do I misunderstand the system as it stands now?


You can but it's a pain in the rear. You have to mine crap to be able to upgrade. If you stop mining, you will have to mine crap again.



Ah ok, so the three days to wait for a respawn also hurts the upgrade, if you wait. Got it.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Cameron Boe
FEDERAL FLIGHT SCHOOL.
#206 - 2012-04-10 18:11:38 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Blakslabeth wrote:
So the summary is:

#1 More expensive ships
#2 Less ability to make isk in incursions
#3 If you live in the drone region your true sec now sucks.

Hard to get excited about 3 nerfs in one blog.



but.. think of the miners dude! They need love too <3





The miners are way out numbered to ratters, ships are already expensive this is only going to drive them higher. i have the strangest feeling that ships are going up and miner kills will be too.
Chris Wheeler
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#207 - 2012-04-10 18:14:28 UTC
Cameron Boe wrote:
The miners are way out numbered to ratters, ships are already expensive this is only going to drive them higher. i have the strangest feeling that ships are going up and miner kills will be too.

Hence the name "Inferno." They said this patch was definitely going to be pvp oriented. I guess that goes for the PvE stuff too!
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#208 - 2012-04-10 18:17:19 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Our plan for this is basically to make the changes, see where prices end up settling and then potentially make further adjustments (to the game as a whole) to react to this.


Just keep in mind that you're not going to have "settled prices" until probably July/August as it will take that long before things start to settle down. Making any decisions about further adjustments before mid-July (at the earliest) would be premature.

And most of the "expected" price levels are already priced into the market within the past few days. Things probably won't go up much more long-term then they are now, otherwise ore ends up worth too much on an ISK/m3 basis. That puts hi-sec ore at around 150-200 ISK/m3 and null-sec ABCs in the 500-600 range (and Morphite at around 13-15k).

But there will definitely be some short-term price shocks between Apr 24th and May/June.
Condensed Veldspar
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#209 - 2012-04-10 18:17:35 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
I really do think that drone alloys gave the drones something unique and different than the rest of Eve's PvE enemies. Giving them bounties doesn't make the space unique or interesting or worth fighting over. It's boring and stale and uninteresting

I understand the effect on mining which is why I propose a different change

What about the drones dropping components required for T2 drone production - and that was the only way to get them

This gives them more flavor, something other than a bounty, and makes the nullsec drone regions something valuable and worth fighting over. The alliances that control T2 drone production could end up quite wealthy. It also doesn't create an additional isk faucet like the bounty change will create.

The rest of the changes sound good though, it's just this drone thing. Eve needs more variety, not less.


+1

Much like running missions, there will be little variety (Oh look, "Damsel in Distress" again!) when you are running sites etc

I actually expected the opposite of this nerf and Rogue drones to recieve some love and maybe become tougher and smarter as they evolve their technology.

What will happen to the Rogue Drone alloys sat in peoples hangers? will they turn into Minerals on patch day? Just dissapear? or turn into rare items like some of those things out there you don't see often anymore?
Endeavour Starfleet
#210 - 2012-04-10 18:18:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Endeavour Starfleet
CCP Affinity wrote:
Grideris wrote:
So are you still looking at boosting Assault and HQ sites a little more? Or is this is for balancing Incursions?

Also, approve of the drone alloy -> bounty changes. More power to the miners!



We want to wait and see how these changes pan out and then we will look at further changes if we feel it's necessary :) I don't think we can ever say 'balancing is done' about any feature.


Ah so we get nothing but a pure nerf. So much for the Incursion Bobs saying it will be balanced with a badly needed boost to Assaults and HQs.

What about mothership loot theft by obvious script running neutrals?

What about silly short incursion timing going into mobilized far too early?

Its getting obvious more time was spent on how to PR this nerf in my opinion than time actually implementing it. Incursions need fixing not nerfs.
Sarmatiko
#211 - 2012-04-10 18:18:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
CCP Greyscale wrote:

Sorry, I should've been clearer: *I* don't know what's up with this, because it's not something that I, personally, have looked into or indeed know all that much about. I only replied to the question because it'd be rude to reply to 1 and 2 but not 3. If there's already been an official statement about this then I defer to whatever that statement said Smile

Oh well, then I think I should jump to angel bandwagon and farm those A-type for another month or two, until someone in CCP decide who should make a fix this time.
And also I should train Tengu like other lemmings, because only Strategic cruiser with solid tank and 750 dps can enter 3/10, no need to spend months investing in NH or Sleipnir. Sad
Alice Katsuko
Perkone
Caldari State
#212 - 2012-04-10 18:19:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Alice Katsuko
So, just to make sure:

(1) Rogue drones are getting bounties, but will not be dropping any modules aside from scrap metal.

(2) Rogue drone salvage will still be craptastic.

(3) Rogue drone "officer" spawns are still going to be worthless.

(4) Rogue drone DED complexes will still be completely useless, and no new ones are in the pipe, nor is anyone going to look at them in the near future.

(5) Nothing is being done to make mining more interesting, or to increase the local supply of low-end minerals in null.
Deathwing Reborn
#213 - 2012-04-10 18:19:50 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
DaDutchDude wrote:
Interesting changes which are already shaping EVE mineral markets today.

So a couple of questions:
1) Will Rogue Drones start dropping normal loot?
2) Will Rogue Drones salvage be increased? It seems today their salvage is quite below par.
3) Will you look into Rogue Drone exploration sites and escalations? Currently, their value is very low (who really wants 'augmented' or 'Integrated' drones?) and could use some new modules / blue prints / etc to be as interesting as the pirate faction drops.
4) How long will it take for the insurance values to adjust to the change in mineral prices? Already, the mineral prices have shot up significantly, and I assume the market will take months after this (if not longer) to adjust to the new realities. It seems a bit unfair if the insurance value for T1 ships lags so far behind players don't get compensated for these drastic changes.
5) Your blog doesn't mention this, but there's also talk about eliminating all T1 module drops from all NPCs. Can you confirm? And does that mean less loot, or will the entire loot drop table be revised to replace T1 drops with meta modules, and thereby reducing the chance for meta 4 modules?



1. No - Commander groups have loot tables, regular dead space rogue drones don't
2. at the moment we have no plans to do this - but who knows!
3. We will definitely look into this :) not confirming we will do anything about it right away but it's definitely on our list of things to investigate
4. Pretty impossible for me to answer that and I am definitely not the person to be doing so - would need to be someone from research and statistics
5. confirmed - they will be replaced with metal scraps



You all say you have thought this out and that you are doing this correctly but let me get this straight. You are going to make drones bounties (supposedly the same as all other pirates) and give them no loot table (which makes them worth less than other pirates negating your last statement about bounties). Not to mention give us no faction or officer drone drops that have been missing since they were created. Still give us the same crappy faction loot (augmented drones ***Faction battleships before this patch were worth less than normal ones!***) . Still give us the same crappy salvage (Drones give very little for salvage.)

You are going to not change a damn thing other than giving us bounties? You all really do hate drones don't you? Either that or you just can't fathom what you are changing.

As far as security status goes, are the systems going to be changing security status or will they remain the same as they are now with a few adjustments for changes? Or, are they going to be re-randomized as I have heard rumors about? Not giving information out like this is just stupid. Can we get a list of systems and their new security status's if they are going to be changed?

So you are going to be removing T1 loot from all pirates and replacing them with 1 metal scrap. Is it just me or is this another stealth nerf? Because we all know that 1 metal scrap is worth the same as all T1 modules. At least give us some random number of metal scraps worth whatever the T1 module it was replacing it with.

Some other problems I have seen from your posts Affinity is that there has been no feedback about this process for Drones. Yes, there has been 1 post by Spitfire in the Russian forums in which he has ignored and not replied to in months. I have posted several times asking for clarification as well as many others yet we have gotten NOTHING. You have not taken into account any of the problems noted above. Yet you still plan on moving forward with this change half ***ed and trying to pat yourself on the back while you do it. Feedback from fanfest? The only feedback I saw was Dev's saying I have no comment. I have my doubts that I will even be responded to in this thread.

You still haven't given us half of the answers that many have asked for on the forums since CCP decided to make rumor of this change.


I have been a fan of the improvements that CCP has made since the Incarna disaster but this just reaffirms that you all still have a long long way to go about making bad desicions and thinking that you are doing great things when you really aren't.
Gnidex
Shadow Legion X
Seriously Suspicious
#214 - 2012-04-10 18:22:01 UTC
It almost makes one want to see the drone plexes be removed alltogether.

They mostly get ignored by explorers in any case.
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
#215 - 2012-04-10 18:24:10 UTC
Gnidex wrote:
It almost makes one want to see the drone plexes be removed alltogether.

They mostly get ignored by explorers in any case.

I would support a removal of drone complexes

They're long, have almost no reward, and the acceleration gates deny entry to industrial ships so you either have to bring an expanded combat ship in to scoop the meager rewards, or bookmark every single room in the plex (and some of them have 6+ rooms) and then visit later after it despawns.
gfldex
#216 - 2012-04-10 18:24:40 UTC
Cameron Boe wrote:
The miners are way out numbered to ratters, ships are already expensive this is only going to drive them higher. i have the strangest feeling that ships are going up and miner kills will be too.


It's a good question at what point the average highsec ganker will reconsider given the perspective of paying 5B ISK for his next Thanatos. As long as highsec ganks drop loot and provide salvage, those who want to see the world burn will keep their matches ready. But that's what an inferno is for, isn't it? You want some sausages?

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
SamGromoff
Goonbine Honnete Ober Advancer Mercantiles
Goonswarm Federation
#217 - 2012-04-10 18:28:07 UTC
gfldex wrote:
Cameron Boe wrote:
The miners are way out numbered to ratters, ships are already expensive this is only going to drive them higher. i have the strangest feeling that ships are going up and miner kills will be too.


It's a good question at what point the average highsec ganker will reconsider given the perspective of paying 5B ISK for his next Thanatos.


Confirming that 5b thanatoi will bankrupt us because we are really, really poor
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#218 - 2012-04-10 18:28:35 UTC
Condensed Veldspar wrote:
I actually expected the opposite of this nerf and Rogue drones to recieve some love and maybe become tougher and smarter as they evolve their technology.

What will happen to the Rogue Drone alloys sat in peoples hangers? will they turn into Minerals on patch day? Just dissapear? or turn into rare items like some of those things out there you don't see often anymore?

1. Rogue drone + Sleeper = ???
2. I hope they turn into collectors' items
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#219 - 2012-04-10 18:31:13 UTC
Promiscuous Female wrote:
Gnidex wrote:
It almost makes one want to see the drone plexes be removed alltogether.

They mostly get ignored by explorers in any case.

I would support a removal of drone complexes

They're long, have almost no reward, and the acceleration gates deny entry to industrial ships so you either have to bring an expanded combat ship in to scoop the meager rewards, or bookmark every single room in the plex (and some of them have 6+ rooms) and then visit later after it despawns.

well, now they'll have bounties
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#220 - 2012-04-10 18:31:38 UTC
SamGromoff wrote:
gfldex wrote:
Cameron Boe wrote:
The miners are way out numbered to ratters, ships are already expensive this is only going to drive them higher. i have the strangest feeling that ships are going up and miner kills will be too.


It's a good question at what point the average highsec ganker will reconsider given the perspective of paying 5B ISK for his next Thanatos.


Confirming that 5b thanatoi will bankrupt us because we are really, really poor

where should i put the minerals for this week's titan