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New Dev Blog: Carebearing 2.0

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Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#181 - 2012-04-10 17:45:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Nekopyat
EvilweaselFinance wrote:

my spider senses are tingling that all meta0 loot is being removed from npcs

my spider senses are mostly remembering it was already announced though they're not very impressive


*nod* I have heard people talking about it, but since I have not seen an announcement I am considering it rumor.

(never mind, someone posted a link to official features, so I have been a bit out of the loop)
Atum
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
#182 - 2012-04-10 17:45:34 UTC
CopyCatz wrote:
- If you keep allowing hulkageddons and similar intimidation, mining will never get any more attractive.. Mining is a carebear trade, and carebears want to be left alone.

Hulkageddon is an emergent activity within the sandbox. CCP has nothing to do with it, apart from creating a ship "better able to handle the dangers of deep space" that can't even tank a T1 destroyer long enough for CONCORD to do something about it. I've done null-sec mining, and while yes, it is very much a carebear trade, and yes, I did like being the only one within three systems, you never know when there might be an incoming roam that requires you to either safe up for a time, or swap the mining lasers for missiles to join the counter-attack.
Einar Matveinen
Mahe Ratu
#183 - 2012-04-10 17:47:53 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:

halfrats for halfmen


Ok, we go.

Drunk leaders for... --> continue the phrase.
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#184 - 2012-04-10 17:49:03 UTC
Atum wrote:
CopyCatz wrote:
- If you keep allowing hulkageddons and similar intimidation, mining will never get any more attractive.. Mining is a carebear trade, and carebears want to be left alone.

Hulkageddon is an emergent activity within the sandbox. CCP has nothing to do with it, apart from creating a ship "better able to handle the dangers of deep space" that can't even tank a T1 destroyer long enough for CONCORD to do something about it. I've done null-sec mining, and while yes, it is very much a carebear trade, and yes, I did like being the only one within three systems, you never know when there might be an incoming roam that requires you to either safe up for a time, or swap the mining lasers for missiles to join the counter-attack.

You can put missles on a hulk?
Skye Aurorae
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2012-04-10 17:49:36 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:

** We have a chance of picking from a given loot table, and then ratios for each type within the table. If we just removed the Meta 0 stuff, we'd end up dropping WAY more Meta 1-4, which isn't desirable, and the only way to resolve this is to alter the table pick rates, which are authored on a per-NPC basis, which would mean recalculating and adjusting every NPC in the game. This isn't really viable within the scope of this release, and we don't want to push this change back because it means doing a "double shock" to mineral prices; hence the metal scraps.


So it'll be a lot easier to loot wrecks :)

So are the scrap drops going to be in piles to reflect that this loot entry 1 corresponds with a mining laser and loot entry 2 corresponds with a 425mm railgun - will the second entry get more metal scraps?


Also, what about Civilian shield boosters that drop - those have BPOs - are those going to be replaced with scraps too.

Ammunition - are ammo drops going away too?

Focused Medium Pulse lasers (or whatever they're going to be called) - I haven't seen a meta 1-4 drop for these in an age - can we check the loot table for these items?

Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21 - oh well.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#186 - 2012-04-10 17:50:22 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Neddy Fox wrote:
Quote:

he added 3 more deadspace sites, bringing us to a point where we now have all 1/10 to 10/10 pirate deadspace sites in game


Sansha 9/10 doesn't exist..


Looking into this one as well Smile

Let me save you some time: you consider the fleet staging points the 9/10 though they're not labeled as such. There are no labeled "9/10s" but the fleet staging point is guaranteed to escalate and drops a-type loot.


Correct on all points, this is working mostly as intended, good knowledge Smile


???

Can we not have REAL 9/10s then? Fleet staging point sucks with the multiple escalations. Why do we have to fly all over to get a chance at a-type loot but can go to 1 place and get X-type?
Lifelongnoob
State War Academy
Caldari State
#187 - 2012-04-10 17:53:38 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Atum wrote:
CopyCatz wrote:
- If you keep allowing hulkageddons and similar intimidation, mining will never get any more attractive.. Mining is a carebear trade, and carebears want to be left alone.

Hulkageddon is an emergent activity within the sandbox. CCP has nothing to do with it, apart from creating a ship "better able to handle the dangers of deep space" that can't even tank a T1 destroyer long enough for CONCORD to do something about it. I've done null-sec mining, and while yes, it is very much a carebear trade, and yes, I did like being the only one within three systems, you never know when there might be an incoming roam that requires you to either safe up for a time, or swap the mining lasers for missiles to join the counter-attack.

You can put missles on a hulk?


no but u can swap to a drake which most miners use to tank the rats while they mine in null
Foreman Waters
Capital Gents
#188 - 2012-04-10 17:55:47 UTC
So why nerf the sec status if the desire is to promote mining as a profession?

Its not like drones sites ( which are truly truly bad ) are worth doing now so with the removal of the alloys it comes down to mining to build anything in this region. In other regions you can salvage and reprocess and provides a sizable amount of mineral content for players to sell to building types like myself. So with no sites to run to provide chunky income as can be found in sites across the rest of eve ( ship prints and other modules along with officer spawns ) and no real answer about drone drops mining is the only answer.

That makes me actually rather happy I have trained hard into industry. But since the space is honestly otherwise worthless crushing the sec status and thru it the belts make ZERO sense. Looking at your chart you have turned much of drone space into crap.

Most of these changes I am 100% on board with, the sweeping sec changes tho should be going the other way if all things remain the same with drone land income faucets post alloys.
SamGromoff
Goonbine Honnete Ober Advancer Mercantiles
Goonswarm Federation
#189 - 2012-04-10 17:55:57 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Can we not have REAL 9/10s then? Fleet staging point sucks with the multiple escalations. Why do we have to fly all over to get a chance at a-type loot but can go to 1 place and get X-type?


There is a second source of X-type that does require you to fly all over the place. 'Real' 9/10's would be nice anyway, though.

Honestly, though, with this set of changes DED plexes will be fine. It's the mag/hacking sites that really need attention now.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#190 - 2012-04-10 17:56:06 UTC
As for the rest, I can already tell, Drones are going to need to be "fleshed out" some.
bounties are only a part of anoms. The faction/commander spawns, the escalations to expeditions and a slim chance at epic loot is the other parts. Unless the bounties are better than other pirates, there is no draw to going after drone space for ratting grounds.

While it's not really that high up there (fix TECH dang it), procuring ratting grounds for alliance members (or attracting renters, thus income) is a conflict driver. Crappy drones giving nothing much but bounties makes drone regions must less attractive, and I thought the overall goal was more conflict in eve, not less.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#191 - 2012-04-10 17:57:13 UTC
Blakslabeth wrote:
So the summary is:

#1 More expensive ships
#2 Less ability to make isk in incursions
#3 If you live in the drone region your true sec now sucks.

Hard to get excited about 3 nerfs in one blog.

1 - Not necessarily. The mins get to the market one way or another. If people are not Drone mining they may switch to normal mining. If the market is efficient (and it is) prices should stay pretty close to what they are now, it's game behavior that will change to accommodate the market not the other way around.

2- ...if by less you mean 10%. Oh well.

3 - move somewhere else. maybe this will spark a war. Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Adunh Slavy
#192 - 2012-04-10 17:57:25 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

... would have somewhat defeated a large portion of ...


... my net worth.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#193 - 2012-04-10 17:57:33 UTC
Skye Aurorae wrote:

So are the scrap drops going to be in piles to reflect that this loot entry 1 corresponds with a mining laser and loot entry 2 corresponds with a 425mm railgun - will the second entry get more metal scraps?

any t1 mod drop is a single unit of metal scraps, no variation, per an earlier clarification
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#194 - 2012-04-10 17:57:36 UTC
SamGromoff wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Can we not have REAL 9/10s then? Fleet staging point sucks with the multiple escalations. Why do we have to fly all over to get a chance at a-type loot but can go to 1 place and get X-type?


There is a second source of X-type that does require you to fly all over the place. 'Real' 9/10's would be nice anyway, though.

Honestly, though, with this set of changes DED plexes will be fine. It's the mag/hacking sites that really need attention now.


Yea I know, I just hate that Named hubs escalate to Fleet Staging points instead of 9/10s. I either sell Fleet Staging points or let them die, not worth it.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#195 - 2012-04-10 17:58:38 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

Can we not have REAL 9/10s then? Fleet staging point sucks with the multiple escalations. Why do we have to fly all over to get a chance at a-type loot but can go to 1 place and get X-type?

You can drop a dread on the fleet staging point it doesn't get much better than that.
Sarmatiko
#196 - 2012-04-10 17:59:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
CCP Greyscale wrote:
St Mio wrote:

3. Are you guys aware that when you added deadspace Invulnerability fields, Angel Cartel became the only faction dropping cruiser A-type loot in highsec?


3) I don't know what's up with this one, sorry Smile


CCP Spitfire stated in this thread almost 2 months ago that this is known problem and fix is underway and you still "dont know what's up"?
Anyone who can open contracts on TQ will not find any Gistum C-Type Invulnerability Field module. But there are tons of A-type because you put them in 4/10 sites.

Also is there any reason why I can enter in Blood Raider Intelligence Collection Point 3/10 site on Command ship but Sansha's Command Relay Outpost 3/10 is closed? If plexing 3/10 on Command ships is considered as overkill then why these sites are open for Strategic cruisers?
Adunh Slavy
#197 - 2012-04-10 17:59:53 UTC
Foreman Waters wrote:
So why nerf the sec status if the desire is to promote mining as a profession?



Unless I am mistaken, one can upgrade space, or do I misunderstand the system as it stands now?

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Skye Aurorae
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#198 - 2012-04-10 18:03:46 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Skye Aurorae wrote:

So are the scrap drops going to be in piles to reflect that this loot entry 1 corresponds with a mining laser and loot entry 2 corresponds with a 425mm railgun - will the second entry get more metal scraps?

any t1 mod drop is a single unit of metal scraps, no variation, per an earlier clarification



There are rats that drop piles of items - look at the hauler spawns for example either the pirate belt spawns or the couriers leaving stations. Clearly the functionality exists.

Skye Aurora is a 7 year old Girl Who Wants to be on the CSM! Unfortunately, the Lawyers say you have to be 21 - oh well.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2012-04-10 18:04:19 UTC
Lyrrashae wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:


[...]

Now we just need a cloak hunter ship to prevent people from ruining the industrial level of the systems by staying there cloaked until it reaches 0...

[...]

THX CCP! You are doing a wonderful work!


Oh for ****'s sakes...This over-entitled whinging crap again...Roll

No, you don't.

Team up and make the effort to secure your space to the point that the big, bad, scawwy cloakie knows he practically can't decloak without getting insta-popped. And if you refuse to do that, then you deserve to lose the benefits of your space.


Does a good hotdop worth losing a tec2 frigate? yes.

Does a mining barge fleet risk going to a belt in a system is filed with neutrals in local? no.

People olny mine when it is profitable, risking to lose a Hulk is not, so or ccp makes it and gives a way to fight cloaked ships and remove them from system, or the economy will have a hard time ahead.

The problem of afk cloakers are that you can't do nothing to remove them once they are there. and yes, it kills the system economy, no matter how fortified is the system defenses! once the afk cloaker spots a miinning barge fleet, it just needs to open um a cyno and spike the local and maybe kill 1 ship to ruin the operation for the day and the economy of the system..

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#200 - 2012-04-10 18:05:31 UTC
Foreman Waters wrote:
So why nerf the sec status if the desire is to promote mining as a profession?

Its not like drones sites ( which are truly truly bad ) are worth doing now so with the removal of the alloys it comes down to mining to build anything in this region. In other regions you can salvage and reprocess and provides a sizable amount of mineral content for players to sell to building types like myself. So with no sites to run to provide chunky income as can be found in sites across the rest of eve ( ship prints and other modules along with officer spawns ) and no real answer about drone drops mining is the only answer.

That makes me actually rather happy I have trained hard into industry. But since the space is honestly otherwise worthless crushing the sec status and thru it the belts make ZERO sense. Looking at your chart you have turned much of drone space into crap.

Most of these changes I am 100% on board with, the sweeping sec changes tho should be going the other way if all things remain the same with drone land income faucets post alloys.


While the seeding of asteroids is more-or-less correlated with system sec, the two are separate systems, and we're not adjusting the makeup of asteroids in drone regions right now.