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New Dev Blog: Carebearing 2.0

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Ceaser Diez
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2012-04-10 16:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Ceaser Diez
I'm glad we have links to dev shoes and no answers to any question brought up. Seems to be "We're putting bounties on drones and didn't think beyond that..."
Chris Wheeler
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#122 - 2012-04-10 16:54:09 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
Now if industrialists could just get the ****** industrialists with the economical sense of Obama to stop building crap for less than you can buy the minerals required for it off the market. The "It didn't cost me nothing to mine it" is such an uneducated look at economy. Of course those are probably the same people that are willing to work for less than minimum wage.


I love you.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#123 - 2012-04-10 16:56:13 UTC
Nendail Smith wrote:
Alx Warlord wrote:
TheButcherPete wrote:
Chalk Inferno up as a failure, CCP will change too much too quickly. Unless... they add something that completely fixes the stuff they're about to **** over.


This change was pointed by CSM in the last meeting, so it is the community voice that is supporting this changes. It was needed...

I'm really sorry for you living in the drone region, now you will rat for isk, not for minerals, so you will buy minerals with isk, from the miners... and the game will be to you as it is for everyone else... so give them some love... the more miners there is the less isk you will need to pay for your minerals...


I love this concept as a reformed miner. Wanna-be PVPers (you know the ones that like to shoot stuff that can't shoot back the most) don't realize that now when they start killing miners, they are actually going to start pushing up the prices of minerals.

Now if industrialists could just get the ****** industrialists with the economical sense of Obama to stop building crap for less than you can buy the minerals required for it off the market. The "It didn't cost me nothing to mine it" is such an uneducated look at economy. Of course those are probably the same people that are willing to work for less than minimum wage.

We shoot your miners so that something else that can ineffectually shoot back comes out.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#124 - 2012-04-10 16:57:16 UTC
also how many metal scraps are we talking bout here
eidenjunior
Perkone
Caldari State
#125 - 2012-04-10 16:57:33 UTC  |  Edited by: eidenjunior
CCP Affinity wrote:
guys, we decided to give the spawns more variety, without significantly altering the difficulty of any one spawn. This was done by grouping the NPCs into waves, and moving the trigger to spawn the next wave from an individual NPC to the group as a whole.


with this change you will make OTA take far long time to then the NMC and NCO. as you have far more ships in the OTA then the other site where you more or less kill everything today - 4 ships.

are you changing the OTA to then? so it will be in line with the other sites?
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#126 - 2012-04-10 16:58:09 UTC
Ceaser Diez wrote:
I'm glad we have links to dev shoes and no answers to any question brought up. Seems to be "We're putting bounties on drones and didn't think beyond that..."



I've answered quite a few questions ;) going through them again for ones I may have missed

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

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Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#127 - 2012-04-10 16:59:09 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Ceaser Diez wrote:
I'm glad we have links to dev shoes and no answers to any question brought up. Seems to be "We're putting bounties on drones and didn't think beyond that..."



I've answered quite a few questions ;) going through them again for ones I may have missed

but seriously i really want more info about this metal scraps business as that's completely new
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#128 - 2012-04-10 17:00:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nendail Smith
fenistil wrote:
CCP Affinity,

What predictions do you think it will have on mineral prices?
There are a lot of minerals coming from drone regions to empire.
If drone regions will not supply the minerals any longer, and the demand stays the same, I guess it is safe to assume the mineral prices will increase?
It would be an interesting thing to know what % of all minerals are being supplied by drone regions now.


The demand for those minerals will not stay the same... Here, see if this can help you actually understand supply and demand. http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newSTR_69.htm

To summarize: As the supply of the minerals goes down, the price of them will rise, while at the same time as the price rises, the demand will go down. Only in a very entry level economic problem is there ever a fixed demand.

On the other side, as the price of minerals go up, the people who are willing to mine and supply them will also increase. As this happens it will take the pressure off the rising prices and begin to stabilize. In the end, the prices of minerals will adjust at a higher level, but you can rest assured demand will not stay fixed.

Of course, as you all hunt miners and kill them you will be adding to the pressure of rising prices now. Sounds like something that is set up to be massively goon F88ked, to borrow a phrase from someone. :P
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#129 - 2012-04-10 17:01:07 UTC
Nerfing the drone regions is pushing inflation in minerals found in addition to Zyde, Mega and Morphite in drone poo. What are you going to do about the shortage/rampant inflation of minerals found in high sec rocks?

Please also keep in mind that at 300m for a hulk and assuming a suicide gank every 10 hours of mining, the floor price of veld is 30m. Plugging this formula into a spreadsheet =30000000/60/((1600/33.3)*1000), gives a minimum trit price of around 10.0 for break even.

Something needs to give.
CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
#130 - 2012-04-10 17:01:32 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
Ceaser Diez wrote:
I'm glad we have links to dev shoes and no answers to any question brought up. Seems to be "We're putting bounties on drones and didn't think beyond that..."



I've answered quite a few questions ;) going through them again for ones I may have missed

but seriously i really want more info about this metal scraps business as that's completely new



Greyscale is going to post about the metal scraps very soon - watch this thread :)

♥ CCP Affinity ♥

Follow me on Twitter

Game Designer for EVE Online

Team Astro Sparkle
Aineko Macx
#131 - 2012-04-10 17:03:51 UTC
Blakslabeth wrote:
So the summary is:

#1 More expensive ships
#2 Less ability to make isk in incursions
#3 If you live in the drone region your true sec now sucks.

Hard to get excited about 3 nerfs in one blog.

1) Excellent, the creeping subjective devaluing of assets was taking away one of the core principles that make eve great: Consequences.
2) The nerf is much milder than predicted, actually. If you ran incursions before because you liked to play that way, you're surely going to continue.
3) Until you actually see the bounties on the drones, you can't judge the effects of the new true sec. The only part about it that's definitely negative is the new isk faucet it opens.

Great changes overall, CCP.

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#132 - 2012-04-10 17:04:13 UTC
Jeicam Mmis wrote:
will killing drones bump security status?

edit, nvm, answered on P4 ("no")


All sec status bumps need to be removed from every NPC in any system below 0.1.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#133 - 2012-04-10 17:05:06 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Nerfing the drone regions is pushing inflation in minerals found in addition to Zyde, Mega and Morphite in drone poo. What are you going to do about the shortage/rampant inflation of minerals found in high sec rocks?

Please also keep in mind that at 300m for a hulk and assuming a suicide gank every 10 hours of mining, the floor price of veld is 30m. Plugging this formula into a spreadsheet =30000000/60/((1600/33.3)*1000), gives a minimum trit price of around 10.0 for break even.

Something needs to give.

while we work hard, we have yet to reach that level of gankination
Ceaser Diez
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#134 - 2012-04-10 17:05:52 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
DaDutchDude wrote:
Interesting changes which are already shaping EVE mineral markets today.

So a couple of questions:
1) Will Rogue Drones start dropping normal loot?
2) Will Rogue Drones salvage be increased? It seems today their salvage is quite below par.
3) Will you look into Rogue Drone exploration sites and escalations? Currently, their value is very low (who really wants 'augmented' or 'Integrated' drones?) and could use some new modules / blue prints / etc to be as interesting as the pirate faction drops.
4) How long will it take for the insurance values to adjust to the change in mineral prices? Already, the mineral prices have shot up significantly, and I assume the market will take months after this (if not longer) to adjust to the new realities. It seems a bit unfair if the insurance value for T1 ships lags so far behind players don't get compensated for these drastic changes.
5) Your blog doesn't mention this, but there's also talk about eliminating all T1 module drops from all NPCs. Can you confirm? And does that mean less loot, or will the entire loot drop table be revised to replace T1 drops with meta modules, and thereby reducing the chance for meta 4 modules?



1. No - Commander groups have loot tables, regular deadspace rogue drones don't
2. at the moment we have no plans to do this - but who knows!
3. We will definitely look into this :) not confirming we will do anything about it right away but it's definitely on our list of things to investigate
4. Pretty impossible for me to answer that and I am definitely not the person to be doing so - would need to be someone from research and statistics
5. confirmed - they will be replaced with metal scraps


Rogue Drones are getting bounties. Apparently metal scraps as well.

Will the bounties be in line with every other NPC faction? Assuming no loot tables and no salvage adjustment drones just became a big craphole of sec nerf. The silver-lining is nobody else is going to want to go there.

Will everywhere just become so homogenous in the set up that we just may as well join goonswarm, tell them they've won and end EVE?

I mean from the tone here its "we added drone bounties and didn't think of anything else until just now"
It is difficult to tell what CCP is thinking as it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
I understand removing alloys but the miners "getting love" seems to be a big ol' red herring. Any extra profits are simply going to get gobbled up by the increased price of everything. With the sec nerfs they'll be even less high end ore around and if you bother with industry index a force recon shows up and sits until its back at 0.
Alain Kinsella
#135 - 2012-04-10 17:06:28 UTC
First of all, thank you for making me re-consider mining. It was my original focus, until realizing I could make better money in planets (at least on a 'logged in' ISK/hr).

EvilweaselFinance wrote:
CCP Affinity wrote:
5. confirmed - they will be replaced with metal scraps

Pardon? Could you elaborate on this, this is news. Just normal metal scraps, or will there be various types of metal scraps?


This. Why not increase the availability of Meta 1-4 instead?

Also, any chance Meta 1-4 items be replaced with 5-run -5 ME BPC instead? Then you can seed them (and tags!) a bit more often, instead of leaving scraps all over the place.

"The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever."

Currently Retired / Semi-Casual (pending changes to RL concerns).
Aineko Macx
#136 - 2012-04-10 17:06:29 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Something needs to give.

Well, inflation needs to be curbed, so get ready for more faucet nerfs Twisted
Succeeding with that, lower prices will follow, although many tears will be shed on the way there...

iveeCore 3.0: The PHP engine for industrial activities and CREST library
Visreae
Iskitution Philanderies Associated
#137 - 2012-04-10 17:07:44 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
DaDutchDude wrote:
Interesting changes which are already shaping EVE mineral markets today.

So a couple of questions:
1) Will Rogue Drones start dropping normal loot?
2) Will Rogue Drones salvage be increased? It seems today their salvage is quite below par.
3) Will you look into Rogue Drone exploration sites and escalations? Currently, their value is very low (who really wants 'augmented' or 'Integrated' drones?) and could use some new modules / blue prints / etc to be as interesting as the pirate faction drops.
4) How long will it take for the insurance values to adjust to the change in mineral prices? Already, the mineral prices have shot up significantly, and I assume the market will take months after this (if not longer) to adjust to the new realities. It seems a bit unfair if the insurance value for T1 ships lags so far behind players don't get compensated for these drastic changes.
5) Your blog doesn't mention this, but there's also talk about eliminating all T1 module drops from all NPCs. Can you confirm? And does that mean less loot, or will the entire loot drop table be revised to replace T1 drops with meta modules, and thereby reducing the chance for meta 4 modules?



1. No - Commander groups have loot tables, regular deadspace rogue drones don't
2. at the moment we have no plans to do this - but who knows!
3. We will definitely look into this :) not confirming we will do anything about it right away but it's definitely on our list of things to investigate
4. Pretty impossible for me to answer that and I am definitely not the person to be doing so - would need to be someone from research and statistics
5. confirmed - they will be replaced with metal scraps



Ty for answering our questions, it is deeply appreciated. Those shoes tho.....

Now on to the answers themselves;
1. So whats the benefit of killing drones as compared to other rats then? They used to provide something unique and alternative to mining?

Also this statistic of 40% of highends coming from drone space... where does it come from?

2. You have no plans to do this.... okay do you agree that they are worth less or can you provide data to the contrary, alleviating our concerns?

3. Thank you, its much needed.

4. Insurance levels have been out of scope since `nam. If you want to score kudo's from teh community look into this, too many instances of things being worth more in insurance than investment to build, and any kind of non vanilla stock ship has insurance levels waaaaaay below what the ship is worth.

5. I feel that the impact from this hasn't been thought out, is there any data or handy charts? Because removing loot from the game..... bounty's are really really boring, its neat to have isk faucets everywhere but the flow needs some chunks to it to make it interesting.
Cal Gin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-04-10 17:07:47 UTC
CCP Affinity wrote:
Penelope Star wrote:
CCP Affinity wears the cutest shoes, and thus can do no wrong in my eyes Smile

I used to love collecting those rogue drones alloys but sizeable bounties sound good too.



aww thanks :3

https://instagr.am/p/cwB4I/media/?size=l (for anyone wondering...)


Those shows look like something out of the Hunger Games
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#139 - 2012-04-10 17:08:20 UTC
St Mio wrote:
Hello CCP

Three questions!

Easy "yes we are aware" / "no we are not aware" ones

Quote:
(...) bringing us to a point where we now have all 1/10 to 10/10 pirate deadspace sites in game, bringing this project close to completion.

1. Are you aware that no one in game has seen an Angel Cartel or Serpentis DED 6/10 site

2. Are you guys aware that the new DED 3/10s have the same initial signal strength as the DED 4/10s? None of the other DED sites share signal strengths. (Example

3. Are you guys aware that when you added deadspace Invulnerability fields, Angel Cartel became the only faction dropping cruiser A-type loot in highsec?


1) Huh. Something odd has happened with these sites. I'll get back to you after I've talked to CCP Bettik about this.

2) The Sansha and Serpentis ones are actually correct, but the other three have the wrong values set. Good catch, I'll fix it as soon as I finish replying here

3) I don't know what's up with this one, sorry Smile
Nendail Smith
Lockheed Nighthawk
#140 - 2012-04-10 17:11:15 UTC
gfldex wrote:
fenistil wrote:
If drone regions will not supply the minerals any longer, and the demand stays the same, I guess it is safe to assume the mineral prices will increase?


Demand wont stay the same. What was seen as a bubble in the mineral market has stabelised. Banned bots are banned. In the good old days we had plenty of caps for mineral prices (hello Mr Shuttle). All that stuff is gone. What is not gone is the covert cyno. AFK cloaker will be a big problem now. It's fairly easy to move to next system if you want to shoot NPCs. If you want to mine those roids, you need to be close to them.

It's going to be a complete mess. :)

fenistil wrote:
It would be an interesting thing to know what % of all minerals are being supplied by drone regions now.


About 40% of all highends. Lowmins where mostly used to build supers.


ROFL Stop the crying about cloaking ships you guys.. I can't swim well enough to live through the lakes you are creating. Your lack of skill is utterly funny if a cloaking ship keeps you from mining. LOL