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Good beginner ship for PVE
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Jouron
Hadon Shipping
#21 - 2012-04-02 19:58:44 UTC
Caldari missile boats tend to be what people lean toward for PVE. My caldari character went, Merlin, Cormarant, Caracal, Drake, Raven.

Some times he swaps back to drake if there is more BC C sized rats in a mission.

The tengu is the cadillac of all mission boats. If you plan on doing alot of pve aim for a shiny version of one of those. If your only a few days old you can still skill into missiles with out having it F your training que.

Your blaster rokh will be a welcome site in Incursion fleets. But the number of Shiny Incursion fleets increases all the time so how quickly you'll get pulled into a fleet to run incursions may vary.

Missile boats tend to be more efficient for doing solo PVE, Missions DED complexes, and scanable complexes and wh sites.
Haruki Yanumano
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-04-02 21:09:58 UTC
Thanks! I figure I'll go for a Caracal and then hop straight to the Tengu when I got the skills. I only played for a few days, but friends sent me 400 million credits, so I'm good ISK-wise:-)
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#23 - 2012-04-04 07:30:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Otrebla Utrigas
Haruki Yanumano wrote:
Thanks! I figure I'll go for a Caracal and then hop straight to the Tengu when I got the skills. I only played for a few days, but friends sent me 400 million credits, so I'm good ISK-wise:-)


Don't get confused, missiles may seem easier for noobs because they always hit, but if you want to be effective with them you have to take into account that:

- They have delayed DPS
- You have two factors (explosion radious and explosion velocity) which works like angular velocity and falloff works for guns, in they way that you have to know why your supposed hard hitting Heavy missiles does nothing to a frigate.
- They do full damage of one type each, so you will have to manage your ammo magazine to be efficient with them.
- Their range depends on the doppler effect. A ship going away from you will lower your range, while an approaching one will increase your effective range. It is possible to OUTRUN a missile so you will have 0 DPS to certain ships no mater what you do.

Once you get these into account, you will find missiles are better for PvE just because of range and the knowledge of the enemy damage weakness before engaging.

Also remember to always fit an AFT in your ships, since missiles don't suffer from tracking issues.

Missiles are great, but so are hybrid guns after the buff. And gunnery skills will help you when you will eventually cross train other factions (laser and autoguns)

And finally, I will give you an advice one of the old guys gave me when I started. "It doesn't matter what you choose, but DO choose, or you won't be good at anything"
Annette Aumer
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-04-04 12:39:30 UTC
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:
Haruki Yanumano wrote:
Thanks! I figure I'll go for a Caracal and then hop straight to the Tengu when I got the skills. I only played for a few days, but friends sent me 400 million credits, so I'm good ISK-wise:-)


Don't get confused, missiles may seem easier for noobs because they always hit, but if you want to be effective with them you have to take into account that:

- They have delayed DPS
- You have two factors (explosion radious and explosion velocity) which works like angular velocity and falloff works for guns, in they way that you have to know why your supposed hard hitting Heavy missiles does nothing to a frigate.
- They do full damage of one type each, so you will have to manage your ammo magazine to be efficient with them.
- Their range depends on the doppler effect. A ship going away from you will lower your range, while an approaching one will increase your effective range. It is possible to OUTRUN a missile so you will have 0 DPS to certain ships no mater what you do.

Once you get these into account, you will find missiles are better for PvE just because of range and the knowledge of the enemy damage weakness before engaging.

Also remember to always fit an AFT in your ships, since missiles don't suffer from tracking issues.

Missiles are great, but so are hybrid guns after the buff. And gunnery skills will help you when you will eventually cross train other factions (laser and autoguns)

And finally, I will give you an advice one of the old guys gave me when I started. "It doesn't matter what you choose, but DO choose, or you won't be good at anything"



Good little writeup there, thanks a lot :)
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#25 - 2012-04-04 12:53:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Otrebla Utrigas
Annette Aumer wrote:


Good little writeup there, thanks a lot :)


Thanks, I found the community of this game very helpful to new players when I started 3 weeks ago, so I try to do my part with the newcomers.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#26 - 2012-04-04 14:55:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Sorry to confuse the issue a little more by yet another piece of possible advice. Just goes to show nothing in EVE is simple.

For a new player, I would recommend first aiming to flying a competent battlecruiser (in this case, Drake). That will give you a source of a steady income from missions, and a solid if not fancy DPS ship to take to incursions and pvp. Once you have the hang of those (solo pve, group pve, combat fleets) you know enough to figure out what next yourself. All the skills you need to get there are stuff that will help you later on, anyhow.

I'd not worry about missiles vs guns or shield vs armor right now. Learn first what you need for the BC of choice. You will end up having skills for both if you keep up doing pvp combat, anyhow.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#27 - 2012-04-04 17:07:27 UTC
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:

Don't get confused, missiles may seem easier for noobs because they always hit, but if you want to be effective with them you have to take into account that:"


Actually, defender missiles are not uncommon on certain NPC types, so they don't always hit either. Theoretically a rather silly player that's messing with you could fit them as well.
Nymph Purchasing
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-04-09 14:15:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Nymph Purchasing
delete--connectivity problems made me think I hadn't actually posted this.
Nymph Purchasing
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#29 - 2012-04-09 14:19:28 UTC
Kairos Eunoia wrote:

Missiles however have the advantage of being very new player friendly as you do not have to take into account such things as fall-off and angular velocity.


Yes missiles are much easier. They only have explosion velocity, explosion radius, and a slightly variable and not clearly listed anywhere without doing the math yourself range. Roll
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#30 - 2012-04-09 14:38:30 UTC
Turret ships need to take into account the speed of the target, the size of the target (vs the tracing speed of your guns), the range of the target (both for tracking reasons and for falloff reasons), the angle that the target is moving at and the angle that your ship is moving at.

Missile ships need to take into account the size of the target vs your explosion radius and the speed of your target vs the explosion velocity. There's no falloff to worry about, either the target is within range or it's not. Oh, and even if your missiles have 100km range, you can still hit things up close just fine.


So yeah, way simpler.
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#31 - 2012-04-09 15:41:25 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Turret ships need to take into account the speed of the target, the size of the target (vs the tracing speed of your guns), the range of the target (both for tracking reasons and for falloff reasons), the angle that the target is moving at and the angle that your ship is moving at.

Missile ships need to take into account the size of the target vs your explosion radius and the speed of your target vs the explosion velocity. There's no falloff to worry about, either the target is within range or it's not. Oh, and even if your missiles have 100km range, you can still hit things up close just fine.


So yeah, way simpler.

Not really, missile users have to take into account ammo damage type ( even if most of the time as caldari you want to use kinetic for the bonuses) and also your range is not fixed, but can be larger or shorter depending on (surprise!) The angle that the target is moving, its speed and the angle your ship is moving at.

Also shooting from long range against a turret sniper give you a little disadvantage because you have delayed DPS, while the other guy has reduced DPS due to fall off.

I don't see turrets being more difficult or missiles being easier. Just different with their pros and cons.

But nothing make yourself manlier than shooting big phallic things to **** your enemy :D
Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#32 - 2012-04-09 18:10:12 UTC
Quote:
Not really, missile users have to take into account ammo damage type ( even if most of the time as caldari you want to use kinetic for the bonuses) and also your range is not fixed, but can be larger or shorter depending on (surprise!) The angle that the target is moving, its speed and the angle your ship is moving at.


Everyone has to take into account damage types. Missiles just give you the opportunity to do something about it.
The range difference is not very pronounced at all unless we're talking about MWDing frigates at long range.
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#33 - 2012-04-10 03:13:41 UTC
Nymph Purchasing wrote:
Yes missiles are much easier. They only have explosion velocity, explosion radius, and a slightly variable and not clearly listed anywhere without doing the math yourself range. Roll


Turn on tactical overlay, mouse-over missile module: oh my! Is that an illuminated sphere showing the maximum range of your missiles? Yes, indeed it is Cool

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-04-10 13:37:29 UTC
Otrebla Utrigas wrote:

Once you get these into account, you will find missiles are better for PvE just because of range and the knowledge of the enemy damage weakness before engaging.



Missiles are just as good for PvP as guns, don't let the EFT warriors fool you.

1) your heavy missiles wil have little to no problem with most frigate's set ups (Battleships get in to trouble true)
2) the abbility to do different kinds of damage is an advantage in steat of a disadvantage, (also most fittings are so common you no upfront which ammo to bring)
3) when someone is at the edge of your range he's no threat to you, he can't tackle you, so either move closer of warp out. (heavy missile reach 70km, when they want to outrun you and only frigates can, you're long way out of their danger range)
4) all caldari top PvP ships with small and medium weaponsystems are missiles ships (Hookbill, Manticore, Drake and Tengu)
Sin Pew
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2012-04-10 15:15:43 UTC
Kahega Amielden wrote:
Quote:
Not really, missile users have to take into account ammo damage type ( even if most of the time as caldari you want to use kinetic for the bonuses) and also your range is not fixed, but can be larger or shorter depending on (surprise!) The angle that the target is moving, its speed and the angle your ship is moving at.


Everyone has to take into account damage types. Missiles just give you the opportunity to do something about it.
The range difference is not very pronounced at all unless we're talking about MWDing frigates at long range.

Except for laser turrets, that only do EM/thermal damage, but feckin cap-hog so I suppose no one uses that in pvp anyway... *mumbles and shrugs*

[i]"haiku are easy, But sometimes they don't make sense, Refrigerator."[/i]
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-04-10 16:44:35 UTC
Haruki Yanumano wrote:
Thanks! I figure I'll go for a Caracal and then hop straight to the Tengu when I got the skills. I only played for a few days, but friends sent me 400 million credits, so I'm good ISK-wise:-)


You can certainly do that. But may I suggest going from the Caracal (L2) to a Drake (L3). The Drake is relatively cheap to outfit and does not require significant skill training. In addition, the Drake grants you entry into L3 missions, which pay considerably more than L2 missions do. The very powerful, passive tank of the Drake plus it's very respectable firepower (even with low skills) makes pretty much any L3 mission a joke.

The Tengu, while a MUCH better bird overall, is expensive and VERY skill intensive. You will have a difficult time saving for one with L2 missions in your Caracal - unless you buy PLEX to sell. The Drake is a fraction of the cost and VERY effective - best bang for the buck in the game IMO.

Just my 2 cents.
Otrebla Utrigas
Iberians
#37 - 2012-04-10 21:28:32 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Haruki Yanumano wrote:
Thanks! I figure I'll go for a Caracal and then hop straight to the Tengu when I got the skills. I only played for a few days, but friends sent me 400 million credits, so I'm good ISK-wise:-)


You can certainly do that. But may I suggest going from the Caracal (L2) to a Drake (L3). The Drake is relatively cheap to outfit and does not require significant skill training. In addition, the Drake grants you entry into L3 missions, which pay considerably more than L2 missions do. The very powerful, passive tank of the Drake plus it's very respectable firepower (even with low skills) makes pretty much any L3 mission a joke.

The Tengu, while a MUCH better bird overall, is expensive and VERY skill intensive. You will have a difficult time saving for one with L2 missions in your Caracal - unless you buy PLEX to sell. The Drake is a fraction of the cost and VERY effective - best bang for the buck in the game IMO.

Just my 2 cents.

I agree with that. After 3 weeks playing, I can now fly a drake with buffer shield (Large shield extenders, invul fields) for a total of 12000 SHP and 71% dmg reduction against guristas, and I can fly though most L3 without having to warp off to recharge shields.

Today I made 20 mill so the drake will play itself in 3 days.

And most of the skills and equipment (except for the LSE) were already in my caracal, so I didn't have to buy anything.

Meahwhile my hero merlin tackler keep doing fun in small gangs. YAY!!
Mike Whiite
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#38 - 2012-04-11 09:55:17 UTC
Haruki Yanumano wrote:
Thanks! I figure I'll go for a Caracal and then hop straight to the Tengu when I got the skills. I only played for a few days, but friends sent me 400 million credits, so I'm good ISK-wise:-)



No you're not.

400 million buys you a hull and 4 subsystems and nothing to replace it when it get shot down (and it will very fast if you move straight to T3 cruisers.)

EVE rule 1: Don't fly what you can't afford to loose!!!


follow the advice above go for a Drake and train to fly as a master (skill and experience wise)
aside from the battlecruiser skill it self all the skills you learn to make your Drake a better ship will make your tengu a better ship and you're able to fly the Drake 2 months earlier than the Tengu.
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