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CCP, Economics, and the Great Hellcat Conspiracy

First post
Author
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-04-08 23:42:25 UTC
The stealth nerf of nullsec pvp is coming along nicely as mineral prices shoot through the sky. For those of you who are unfamiliar with CCP's nefarious plot to nerf nullsec pvp they are making everything more expensive so that big, effective fleets are no longer economical to field.

We can expect the following fleets to gradually go extinct after the next expansion.

  • Hellcats
  • Thundercats
  • Alpha Gangs
  • Supercap Blobs
  • Capital Blobs
  • AHAC Gangs


CCP is fixing the economy so that people like you can't field cool ships. This is a stealth nerf of nullsec because they think the way big fleet PVP currently occurs in nullsec is (correctly) different from what they advertise. They want more "diversity" in the average gang so they are making effective gangs too expensive to use.

Save the hellcats!

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#2 - 2012-04-08 23:51:38 UTC
Mineral prices are shooting through the roof because of speculation and folks buying mins up to profit from the very thing they are doing.


I bet 5 PLEX that min prices will go down significantly once the expansion goes live (give or take a few weeks).

People will cash in (or try to) on their huge stockpiles of minerals and then mission runners will pick up the slack by actually salvaging and looting their missions. A few more miners might dust off their ships as well.

In the end, prices will likely only be what they were 2 years ago. If not lower.
Torneach
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-04-09 00:15:59 UTC
Or, you know, these nullsec alliances could just build the stuff themselves, thereby circumventing the current economic conditions by setting their own prices.

There is no problem here that couldn't be solved by the playerbase itself.
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
#4 - 2012-04-09 00:40:54 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:


We can expect the following fleets to gradually go extinct after the next expansion.

  • Hellcats
  • Thundercats
  • Alpha Gangs
  • Supercap Blobs
  • Capital Blobs
  • AHAC Gangs



I hope I live to see the day supercapital blobs go extinct. Capital blobs going the way of the dodo would also be nice, but it'll be a cold day in hell before that happens, and cap blobs aren't nearly as bad as supercap blobs.
Aiwha
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2012-04-09 01:48:53 UTC
TIL CCP has a magic wand that can raise mineral prices.

Sanity is fun leaving the body.

MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#6 - 2012-04-09 02:00:12 UTC
Torneach wrote:
Or, you know, these nullsec alliances could just build the stuff themselves, thereby circumventing the current economic conditions by setting their own prices.

There is no problem here that couldn't be solved by the playerbase itself.


Unless all their miners just took a two weeks, or longer, vacation.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet

Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-04-09 03:46:03 UTC
Torneach wrote:
Or, you know, these nullsec alliances could just build the stuff themselves, thereby circumventing the current economic conditions by setting their own prices.

There is no problem here that couldn't be solved by the playerbase itself.


Um no. Almost all industrial builds in eve fall into a certain range of isk per hour (slow selling stuff sells at a premium). Simply building it themselves will only save 0.0 alliances a relatively fixed amount per ship (this also means that as mineral prices go up per unit margin declines).

Basically nothing is going to bring down ship prices but a mineral dump by CCP.
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#8 - 2012-04-09 04:30:53 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
Mineral prices are shooting through the roof because of speculation and folks buying mins up to profit from the very thing they are doing.


I bet 5 PLEX that min prices will go down significantly once the expansion goes live (give or take a few weeks).

People will cash in (or try to) on their huge stockpiles of minerals and then mission runners will pick up the slack by actually salvaging and looting their missions. A few more miners might dust off their ships as well.

In the end, prices will likely only be what they were 2 years ago. If not lower.


You do realise supply for some minerals is about to get a massive shaft right?

If anything high ends are going to end up higher due to this. Speculation will cause crashes and spikes in the price over the first weeks before and after the patch. They'll eventually balance out as stocks are reduced and supply < demand kicks in causing an increase in price over the following months.

If you think ships are expensive now, well my dear, I hope you're stocking up on them, because high end minerals are definitely going to rise another 20-40% at least. I've done well enough speculation on this, the math and logic suggest I'm right. It's also why me, and many traders, put in hundreds of billions in this, even our stocks will deplete eventually as demand for minerals is quite large.

Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524

Tomas Ysidro
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-04-09 04:38:38 UTC
As if ship cost has ever been a factor in nullsec pvp.
Vyl Vit
#10 - 2012-04-09 05:56:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
Okay. Tell me, specifically, HOW CCP is raising prices on the market. What method are they using? Are they going into the data files and changing numbers? How is this being done? Answer this and maybe the OP has a point. Don't answer it, and I can see why you're blocked, OP.

However, you go further and claim CCP is "fixing the economy so..." Okay. How are they doing it? Or, is this some mystery thing only CCP knows, and we're benefitting from your rapier like nostril abilities....you smell a rat? Go ahead. Take as much space as you need.

How is CCP raising prices on the market?
How is CCP "fixing it so" you can't buy these ships?

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.

MICH00000
Jovian Gaurdians
#11 - 2012-04-09 06:12:27 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
The stealth nerf of nullsec pvp is coming along nicely as mineral prices shoot through the sky. For those of you who are unfamiliar with CCP's nefarious plot to nerf nullsec pvp they are making everything more expensive so that big, effective fleets are no longer economical to field.

We can expect the following fleets to gradually go extinct after the next expansion.

  • Hellcats
  • Thundercats
  • Alpha Gangs
  • Supercap Blobs
  • Capital Blobs
  • AHAC Gangs


CCP is fixing the economy so that people like you can't field cool ships. This is a stealth nerf of nullsec because they think the way big fleet PVP currently occurs in nullsec is (correctly) different from what they advertise. They want more "diversity" in the average gang so they are making effective gangs too expensive to use.

Save the hellcats!


Wtf is a hellcat and wtf is a thundercat?
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2012-04-09 06:18:23 UTC
MICH00000 wrote:
Wtf is a hellcat and wtf is a thundercat?

hellcat = a certain pulse Abaddon fitting
thundercat = a certain heavy missile Tengu fitting
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2012-04-09 06:42:28 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:


Unless all their miners just took a two weeks, or longer, vacation.


Not going to happen with mineral prices this goodLol
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#14 - 2012-04-09 06:44:47 UTC
With mineral inflation CCP buffs tears!

Has any other game company managed this innovation before?

I was there.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Seleia O'Sinnor
Drop of Honey
#15 - 2012-04-09 10:19:50 UTC
Market will calm down, like with PI goods. Now the speculants are crawling over each other.

I've always been against gun mining.

Maybe we all will appreciate the tedious and boring work of the miners(non-botters).

Odyssey: Repacking in POS hangars for modules +1,  but please for other stuff too, especially containers. Make containers openable in POS hangars.

marie claude
Space Underground
Silent Infinity
#16 - 2012-04-09 15:38:34 UTC
the op can not be more wrong ccp has always made it clear that they want the players to move into lowsec and null sec. this is a classic mistake made by most mmo owners :trying to control the players. ccp cant stand it they want players to mine and mission only as a means to support a pvp habit. sorry ccp most of us play pve more than anything i know several players who only mine. i refuse to mine its no fun missions are fun. 70% of my time online is doing missions the rest is shuffling pi orders and building pos and sov items. i have no interest in going to low sec where 40 snot nosed kids in gank squads will pwn me. that being said ccp is nerfing mission drops because they hate mission runners with a purple passion. same with the drone poo nerf. they crashed the market by removing npc shuttle sales and the economy has not really been the same since. by nerfing drops they are hoping to get more ppl to mine in low sec. nope i m still not doing it. anyone who says mission runners and incursion fleets make too much isk are nitwits or too lazy to do it themselves.
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-04-09 15:56:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
marie claude wrote:
Wall of text but I read it.




Aside your wall of text:

Once you can't play there any more, give a try to null sec.
It can be very fun but I'll never say rewarding because you need to be one of these nerds playing all day with several accounts and dozens alts to take real profits, those yeah can pay themselves a Nyx faster than the regular casual in high sec can make isk for another Hulk (granted, one of my mates just did 50bil in a week doing incursions and anoms in null)

Most likely you can win decent isk to replace your lost but the risk of loosing it again is just exponential.
No bets on what will or will not happen, anyway whatever you do you'll always figure the hard way that older players in eve are privileged no matter the changes, because it's just the way it is.

After this if you can't play it or just have no more interest on playing it just take a break, play something else.
Corina Jarr
en Welle Shipping Inc.
#18 - 2012-04-09 16:13:38 UTC
Riley Moore wrote:
Corina Jarr wrote:
Mineral prices are shooting through the roof because of speculation and folks buying mins up to profit from the very thing they are doing.


I bet 5 PLEX that min prices will go down significantly once the expansion goes live (give or take a few weeks).

People will cash in (or try to) on their huge stockpiles of minerals and then mission runners will pick up the slack by actually salvaging and looting their missions. A few more miners might dust off their ships as well.

In the end, prices will likely only be what they were 2 years ago. If not lower.


You do realise supply for some minerals is about to get a massive shaft right?

If anything high ends are going to end up higher due to this. Speculation will cause crashes and spikes in the price over the first weeks before and after the patch. They'll eventually balance out as stocks are reduced and supply < demand kicks in causing an increase in price over the following months.

If you think ships are expensive now, well my dear, I hope you're stocking up on them, because high end minerals are definitely going to rise another 20-40% at least. I've done well enough speculation on this, the math and logic suggest I'm right. It's also why me, and many traders, put in hundreds of billions in this, even our stocks will deplete eventually as demand for minerals is quite large.

Demand is already much higher than it will be after the change.

Yes prices of Zyd and Mega are going to be higher than they were before the announcement. However, at their current prices (which are still rising as people continue to stock up), they will be in a chaotic state once people drop their mins, and then after that settles they will still recover to less than whatever they peak at before the change. And the other mins (normal HS stuff) will likely be close to what it was prior to the announcement, instead of the inflation we see now.

I'll gladly eat my hat if I turn out to be wrong.
Xiozor
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2012-04-09 16:15:44 UTC
Back in 2006 Megathrons and Apocs (Staple fleetships) were 120m for the hull alone, and even with less ISK making opportunity than we have today, we still managed to field 300-500 man fleets with a 100 man dreadnought ****train.

Prices have a loooong way to rise before they can make 0.0 more interesting.
stoicfaux
#20 - 2012-04-09 16:55:52 UTC
When do ship insurance prices get adjusted to reflect current market mineral values? Is that an automatic process or does CCP need to manually do that?

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

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