These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

Rumors of new Amarrian military technologies
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2012-03-30 00:05:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
Kel hound wrote:
Lets be honest with ourselves here. Miniaturization of capsuler technology is - or was as rumors would have us believe - inevitable. That Amarr are the first to do this - or claim to do this - is not actually that surprising. The largest of the 5 empires with the most resources and man-power behind them, I would be surprised if they were not at the for-front of this line of research


In any case, if these rumors are true and I have no reason to doubt they are not then it will not be long before the other 3 empires aquire this technology as well. Once that has happend it is just a matter of time till this tech trickles down into the hands of capsulers like us.

I for one find it exciting to think how close we of neweaden are to literally curing death.


It's a little surprising because for the past few centuries or so, Gallente and Caldari (century in the Caldari's case) scientist have generally been the leading the new technological breakthroughs (discounting whatever the Jovians have), Amarrians haven't jumped to adapt new technology first since they rediscovered interstellar travel. While they can be more than capable of leading in almost every field, yet the strict theocracy makes it difficult for intellectuals to show the cluster what they are capable of.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Kel hound
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-03-30 00:25:21 UTC
Indeed you are correct but while the Caldari or Gallente have been the leaders for some time the Amarr have never been far behind. Project Mirage is a perfect example of this. Caldari developed the covert -ops class of ship and the Amarr quickly followed. Like this rumored miniaturized capsule tech it is/was inevitable that the Amarr would find some area that gave them the edge and in doing so lead R&D for that area.

While I agree that it is a little surprising that this lead has apparently happened in clone tech and mind transfer (areas of reserch that traditionally grated against Amarrian belief) all it really shows is a progression and adaptation of Amarrian thinking. At the risk of offending people perhaps one day Amarr will evolve into a secular power and join the rest of the cluster in a modern, enlightened age.


Till then I simply celebrate what this means for trans-humanists like myself. Death is a disease that may finally be cured with this discovery.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#23 - 2012-03-30 01:13:51 UTC
Kel hound wrote:
While I agree that it is a little surprising that this lead has apparently happened in clone tech and mind transfer (areas of reserch that traditionally grated against Amarrian belief) all it really shows is a progression and adaptation of Amarrian thinking. At the risk of offending people perhaps one day Amarr will evolve into a secular power and join the rest of the cluster in a modern, enlightened age.


Of course, we religious zealots were the first to return to space, and were it not for the Jove, that pretty civilization of raving candy trippers across the way would not have had opportunity to split itself into two pretty civilizations of raving candy trippers. The ancient Takmahl were credited with command over cybernetics and biotechnology, and even in the present day, God's Fiefdom excels in those sciences which sit at the foundation of the advancement about which we speak (though you didn't hear it from me).

It is only appropriate that Her Majesty should be the one to show leadership on this front.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#24 - 2012-03-30 11:28:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Kel hound wrote:
Lets be honest with ourselves here. Miniaturization of capsuler technology is - or was as rumors would have us believe - inevitable. That Amarr are the first to do this - or claim to do this - is not actually that surprising. The largest of the 5 empires with the most resources and man-power behind them, I would be surprised if they were not at the for-front of this line of research


In any case, if these rumors are true and I have no reason to doubt they are not then it will not be long before the other 3 empires aquire this technology as well. Once that has happend it is just a matter of time till this tech trickles down into the hands of capsulers like us.

I for one find it exciting to think how close we of neweaden are to literally curing death.


It's a little surprising because for the past few centuries or so, Gallente and Caldari (century in the Caldari's case) scientist have generally been the leading the new technological breakthroughs (discounting whatever the Jovians have), Amarrians haven't jumped to adapt new technology first since they rediscovered interstellar travel. While they can be more than capable of leading in almost every field, yet the strict theocracy makes it difficult for intellectuals to show the cluster what they are capable of.


This is some kind of duality that often proves interesting in the Empire. Stability and traditions are usually at the foreground, where it can indeed hamper at different scales research and scientific endeavors. But on another side, knowledge being considered as a first virtue, when a science breakthrough or possibility is deemed worthy (which does not happen often), the research and innovative efforts put behind can suddenly prove very impressive.
N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#25 - 2012-03-31 15:11:21 UTC
Bucky O'Hair wrote:
Ushra’Khan finds this news alarming, and as such we have dispatched agents of our own to verify the validity of this claim. If they do find supporting information, they have been instructed to acquire this technology by any means necessary, so that the Minmatar Republic can build its own immortal army of Valklear Guard.


... Then why announce it on a public forum?

**Vherokior **
Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
Khimi Harar
#26 - 2012-04-01 14:44:25 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
Amarrians haven't jumped to adapt new technology first since they rediscovered interstellar travel. While they can be more than capable of leading in almost every field, yet the strict theocracy makes it difficult for intellectuals to show the cluster what they are capable of.


I think your sources misinformed you when it comes to Amarr science. There is no duality or struggle between Amarrian religion and Amarrian science. Science is part of religion in the Empire and vital in the search for enlightenment.

Many societies have separated religious and scientific processes, and have come to consider religion as archaic, 'not real' and soft. Amarr religion however has constantly adapted, hence the stability and strength of the Empire.

Yes, our advancements probably have more safeguards and moments of reflection built-in then some other cultures scientific processes. I think this is a good thing.
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#27 - 2012-04-02 03:21:35 UTC
So much prattling, and none of you have grasped the greatest implication of this new science:

Baseliners are completely obsolete. A superior being can now be created.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#28 - 2012-04-02 03:59:24 UTC
Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
So much prattling, and none of you have grasped the greatest implication of this new science:

Baseliners are completely obsolete. A superior being can now be created.


The technology in question uses the "baseline" as its carrier platform.

The modified "baseline" enjoys all capabilities of a capsuleer, without requiring a pod.

As a deviation from the "baseline," but with now-redundant functionality and increased overhead, it is clearly the capsuleer who has become "obsolete."

"Pod pilots" will inevitably be displaced by modified "baseline" cyborgs.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#29 - 2012-04-02 12:20:04 UTC
These baseline cyborgs can not fly a capsule, though.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#30 - 2012-04-02 16:21:53 UTC
They don't need capsules at all. True, their interfaces will be programmed for planetary vehicles, but that is an implementation detail that could be easily addressed by clever software engineers. Really, we ourselves won't need pods for more than escape and shuttle services. Frankly, I'm looking forward draining all this goo.

Eventually, one might imagine that spacecraft crews will be fitted with similar technology as well, reducing the numbers needed to service a vessel, and greatly improving the survival rates.
Hooch Flux
Flux Unlimited
#31 - 2012-04-02 18:11:19 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
These baseline cyborgs can not fly a capsule, though.



Yet...
Hooch Flux
Flux Unlimited
#32 - 2012-04-02 18:21:40 UTC
The pod/clone technology we use is based on technology shared by the Jove. Do any of you think for one second they gave us the endpoint of that particular technology branch?

What if it goes a lot further? What if someone found something related out there
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#33 - 2012-04-02 19:17:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Gosakumori Noh wrote:
They don't need capsules at all. True, their interfaces will be programmed for planetary vehicles, but that is an implementation detail that could be easily addressed by clever software engineers. Really, we ourselves won't need pods for more than escape and shuttle services. Frankly, I'm looking forward draining all this goo.

Eventually, one might imagine that spacecraft crews will be fitted with similar technology as well, reducing the numbers needed to service a vessel, and greatly improving the survival rates.




Of course they do not need capsules. They do not fly spaceships. This is what the primary role of a capsule is. Cloning technology is something else that is not directly linked to the capsule. We do not necessarily need a capsule to use the instant brain scanner that is currently attached to our capsules.

The goo you speak of is a mandatory part of interfacing with the capsule, and thus, the ship. Without the capsule, our spaceships share no difference with conventionnal ships.

Also, we are currently speculating on rumors and nobody seems to exactly know how these implants will be compatible with the capsule itself. If they are, then I guess that we could get rid of the instant brain pattern scanner, which would allow us to be immortal not only in space, but everywhere.

They will never replace the capsule, though.
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
#34 - 2012-04-02 19:55:22 UTC
Who do you think will have the fastest access to technology hybridizing capsuleers and clone troops? The clone troops fighting for our table scraps, or the true ruling class of our miserable outdated species: us?

Immortality is here. For those of us with the funds and inclination to seek it out, anyway. I'll pull all my black market scientists off their current "create the strongest crack in the galaxy" project, and put them on this.
Gosakumori Noh
Coven of One
#35 - 2012-04-02 20:46:54 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Of course they do not need capsules. They do not fly spaceships. This is what the primary role of a capsule is.


We do not agree on the "primary" role of the capsule. However, looking at industrial progress in the abstract:

We begin with an insurmountable problem.

We develop solutions that are limited to a relatively small population of specialists.

Over time, we engineer generalized solutions that are accessible to a larger population.

The generalized solution displaces the specialized.

Displaced specialists insist the generalized solution is inadequate to the bitter end.

The specialized solution becomes a fashionable "art/craft" sold at considerable markup in (specialized) retail outlets.

With technological advancement, "never say never."
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#36 - 2012-04-03 11:16:02 UTC
I do not see how this invalidates my point : we still need the capsule to fly our ships with all our current abilities. Cloning is another matter. I too am curious to see if this supposed new instant cloning technology will be available to capsuleers considering how uncomplete is the current one available to us (making us mortal outside of the capsule).
Ugleb
Jotunn Risi
#37 - 2012-04-08 23:32:55 UTC
Lyn Farel wrote:
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Oh goody, another excuse for CONCORD to encourage pointless conflict with little value, progress or point as an industrial stimulator. No doubt these theoretical soldiers would be roped into the same net of contracts and caveats to render them toothless, then fed distractions to prevent them rocking the boat. Just how far is the assembly going to go in maintaining this farce? First we had capsuleer fleets clashing and doing nothing. Now we're going to have armies clashing and doing nothing, since there will be even fewer casualties. Aside from the local population.


CONCORD is the only thing that prevents New Eden to fall in a total war, and also the only entity actively doing something against the Sansha Nation, even if that means counting exclusively on capsuleers.


The non-Capsuleer navies are typically committed to planetary defences, even when their vessels are not crippled by Sansha electronic warfare that is prevalent in the areas targeted by Nation. The Republic Fleet, or their counterparts, is often rendered incapable of meaningful opposition. And so it falls to the Capsuleers. Even our ships can suffer systems disruption while an Incursion is in full force, it isn't until the Nation forces have been weakened that this eases off.

http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#38 - 2012-04-09 12:08:13 UTC
Ugleb wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Oh goody, another excuse for CONCORD to encourage pointless conflict with little value, progress or point as an industrial stimulator. No doubt these theoretical soldiers would be roped into the same net of contracts and caveats to render them toothless, then fed distractions to prevent them rocking the boat. Just how far is the assembly going to go in maintaining this farce? First we had capsuleer fleets clashing and doing nothing. Now we're going to have armies clashing and doing nothing, since there will be even fewer casualties. Aside from the local population.


CONCORD is the only thing that prevents New Eden to fall in a total war, and also the only entity actively doing something against the Sansha Nation, even if that means counting exclusively on capsuleers.


The non-Capsuleer navies are typically committed to planetary defences, even when their vessels are not crippled by Sansha electronic warfare that is prevalent in the areas targeted by Nation. The Republic Fleet, or their counterparts, is often rendered incapable of meaningful opposition. And so it falls to the Capsuleers. Even our ships can suffer systems disruption while an Incursion is in full force, it isn't until the Nation forces have been weakened that this eases off.


What is your point ?
Link Joker
Goto Manufacturing
#39 - 2012-04-10 17:48:27 UTC
Give it another six months or so at a guess and we'll know for sure.

Istvaan Shogaatsu wrote:
I'll pull all my black market scientists off their current "create the strongest crack in the galaxy" project, and put them on this.


Shogaatsu makes a point here. There's ISK to be made one way or another. Think about it for a moment


  • Even if you can transfer conciousness to a clone instanty, you will still need to transport the meat to the combat zone
  • That meat will need to be cryo'd in, since it'll have no concious mind to guide it
  • That meat will need food, water, oxy and ammo. Not to mention the rest of it. How many capsuleers think about what the average footsoldier needs on a daily basis
  • They'll need everything shipping in 'cause you can bet your shiny chrome implants they won't be getting them from the locals
  • The manufacture and supply of small arms and similar is about to go through the roof. After all, they aren't going to be able to retrieve that stuff from the corpse untill they win the battle. Assuming they do and the equipment can be recovered
  • Tanks, aerospace craft, landers, munitions, pre-fabricated fortifications... all that is going to be in demand soon and the cost will only rise
  • With those increases, the cost of metals and composite plastics is going to go up as well, assuming you've not been stockpilling in advance.



Even without those factors, this is going to affect our way of life


  • Think very carefully about your security and logistics. Everyone will come under strain if, or rather, when the dust gets bloodied
  • Station security is going to increase tenfold. After all, you never know who is going to be carrying that flechette pistol with an eye to inconvienencing another dirtside officer
  • Raids will increase. I cannot think of a single battle in history where the opposition would not have taken the opportunity to stack the odds in their favor. Prospective troop transporters beware
  • Carriers and orbital bombardment pilots are likely to get quite busy. Close air support, I'm told, is essential for the footsloggers. Alternatively, maxim twenty - If you're not willing to shell your own position, you're not willing to win
  • Implant tech might become cheaper as mass production methods roll out improvements. Equally likely is that implants get more expensive under increased demand


These aren't exhaustive points in the slightest, but rather something to get you thinking beyond the whole "Empire politics" thing.
Previous page12