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EVE economics, care bears, pirates
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Serene Repose
#81 - 2012-04-08 05:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Serene Repose
I think gankers are @$$3$... guess what, I've NEVER been ganked. They're still @$$3$. You want to knock morality? Good. Pretend you're brave new and clever about it? Yeah, right. Ancient history. You don't want morality...who's your paw, by the way?

You keep talking that smack. We'll cringe in horror 'cause you pick on the little ones. What warriors! What supreme fighters!

They don't gank in low or null 'cause they'll get there @$$3$ handed to them and they know it. So, they come here and philosophize about the game to hide the fact they're chicken. Bok Bok Bok

We must accommodate the idiocracy.
Krenalla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#82 - 2012-04-08 05:12:41 UTC

They don't gank in low or null 'cause they'll get there @$$3$ handed to them and they know it. So, they come here and philosophize about the game to hide the fact they're chicken. Bok Bok Bok[/quote]

Chinese Chicken ??
Kimmiy Kimasre
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2012-04-08 05:28:28 UTC
Carebears are fickle gamers. You can lose them to competitors just as easily as you gain them.

"Hardcore" players usually have a greater sense of investment in the game as a player. Certainly Carebears can feel invested, but that tends to be in the manner of storyline or social interaction, things which can be consumed and feelings which can be transfered to new games.

You can be a great startup if you draw in a lot of Carebears. But then what? They consume your story, your content, your community; and then they move on and become absorbed in the next thing.

If an MMO wants to be around for as long as EVE, it has to draw in the "Hardcore" crowd too. It takes people who create their own meta-game, something that EVE is famous (infamous) for.

And for my final point, there are two kinds of changes that are made for Carebears: the first kind of change always benefits the "hardcore" crowd more with improvements to quality-of-life and access/control to new aspects of gameplay or the economy, and the second kind of change are the ones that destroy games such as pay-to-win cash shops and hand-holding gameplay-on-rails which very few Carebears will even tolerate for long.
Adunh Slavy
#84 - 2012-04-08 05:41:56 UTC
Htrag wrote:

No dude, harden yourself up or find a new game. That's how we roll.


Just admit you like the protection Concord affords criminals. Hiding behind bluster isn't going to get you any where.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Adunh Slavy
#85 - 2012-04-08 05:49:20 UTC
Htrag wrote:

c'mon man I know you have more refined thoughts than this.

It's all worked out. Just because someone is yellow in high sec doesn't mean it's a free target.



It means whatever CCP says it means. Are you afraid of the idea of 1,000 noob ships getting free shots at you? You'll be able to shoot back ya know.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#86 - 2012-04-08 05:49:46 UTC
I remember when one of my friends, along with my brother, use to play World of Warcraft and they all told me that they soon left the game pretty quick because it was too boring, once you gained a certain level you end up abandoning weaker tools and never use them again, there was no sense of consequence for your own actions, it was all nothing but grinding even with friends, etc.

This makes me wonder. WoW claims to hold the title of having millions of subscribers, but how many of those subscribers stay and how many come and go? I bet there is a **** ton of WoW players that come in and go unsub compared to the ones that stay.

Looking at WoW is like looking at Hot Topic. At first it was probably a great place to be because it was so unique and so separated from mainstream games that maybe that's why it was so popular. But then they started to become a cash cow in the sense that they started tailoring to the mainstream and trendy folks who just come and go.

I don't want Eve to go down this path.

Adapt or Die
Adunh Slavy
#87 - 2012-04-08 05:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Adunh Slavy
Jita Alt666 wrote:

+2 - -2 is to close.

+5 - -5 works much better. You want to kill baddies grind your way up, just like the baddies have to do if they want to lose their -10.



We'll see. I think the +5 v -5 is the idea for low sec in Crimewatch 2. Why not narrow it for high sec? High sec is "safer" right? So let the safer area handle it self. Still lots of oppertunity for goodies and baddies to get up to thier gank and mine games.

What I find most amusing is how the gankbear crowd screams in horror from these ideas. "Oh No, the carebears will be able to shoot at us! Oh No, this will kill PVP in Eve!!!" Bunch of clowns. It would be one of the best PVP motivators possible.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#88 - 2012-04-08 05:57:52 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
What I find most amusing is how the gankbear crowd screams in horror from these ideas. "Oh No, the carebears will be able to shoot at us! Oh No, this will kill PVP in Eve!!!" Bunch of clowns. It would be one of the best PVP motivators possible.

Heh. Great mental image there :)

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#89 - 2012-04-08 06:00:17 UTC
Concord should hand out permabans and virus infect their computers like Sony does wita rootkit so they can never infect the game again from that box.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2012-04-08 06:07:00 UTC
Kimmiy Kimasre wrote:
Carebears are fickle gamers. You can lose them to competitors just as easily as you gain them.

"Hardcore" players usually have a greater sense of investment in the game as a player. Certainly Carebears can feel invested, but that tends to be in the manner of storyline or social interaction, things which can be consumed and feelings which can be transfered to new games.

You can be a great startup if you draw in a lot of Carebears. But then what? They consume your story, your content, your community; and then they move on and become absorbed in the next thing.

If an MMO wants to be around for as long as EVE, it has to draw in the "Hardcore" crowd too. It takes people who create their own meta-game, something that EVE is famous (infamous) for.

And for my final point, there are two kinds of changes that are made for Carebears: the first kind of change always benefits the "hardcore" crowd more with improvements to quality-of-life and access/control to new aspects of gameplay or the economy, and the second kind of change are the ones that destroy games such as pay-to-win cash shops and hand-holding gameplay-on-rails which very few Carebears will even tolerate for long.


Missions should be made more hard core:

1.Missions should have "patrols" that can result in ship death/warp out if handled wrong. See #2 on why warp out SHOULD matter.

2..Warping out should mean Mission Fail on some missions. The Gurista transport flees while you are gone. Apparently coming in and killing half it's friends scared it off. Surprising, eh?

3.Deadspace only, lose on warp, buffs for added expense for Level 5 group missions. Just copy WoW Vanilla raids. Vanilla.

4.Make it so the ship can die. If you are worried about losing your 1 billion ship, you can always play that mission with a 100 million dollar ship. These missions can have a warning.

And so on.
Jessie-A Tassik
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#91 - 2012-04-08 06:10:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jessie-A Tassik
Henry Haphorn wrote:
I remember when one of my friends, along with my brother, use to play World of Warcraft and they all told me that they soon left the game pretty quick because it was too boring, once you gained a certain level you end up abandoning weaker tools and never use them again, there was no sense of consequence for your own actions, it was all nothing but grinding even with friends, etc.

This makes me wonder. WoW claims to hold the title of having millions of subscribers, but how many of those subscribers stay and how many come and go? I bet there is a **** ton of WoW players that come in and go unsub compared to the ones that stay.

Looking at WoW is like looking at Hot Topic. At first it was probably a great place to be because it was so unique and so separated from mainstream games that maybe that's why it was so popular. But then they started to become a cash cow in the sense that they started tailoring to the mainstream and trendy folks who just come and go.

I don't want Eve to go down this path.


WoW has changed a lot.

The last time I logged in was when they changed the world in preparation for the Cataclysm release. I was trying to see some Alliance areas before they were wiped. And then I realized I was to late. :(

With that insane act of content destruction, I logged out and left.
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
#92 - 2012-04-08 06:58:37 UTC
Jessie-A Tassik wrote:
Missions should be made more hard core:

1.Missions should have "patrols" that can result in ship death/warp out if handled wrong. See #2 on why warp out SHOULD matter.

2..Warping out should mean Mission Fail on some missions. The Gurista transport flees while you are gone. Apparently coming in and killing half it's friends scared it off. Surprising, eh?

3.Deadspace only, lose on warp, buffs for added expense for Level 5 group missions. Just copy WoW Vanilla raids. Vanilla.

4.Make it so the ship can die. If you are worried about losing your 1 billion ship, you can always play that mission with a 100 million dollar ship. These missions can have a warning.

And so on.

The problem with making NPCs "hard core" is that NPCs are predictable. Even with randomized spawns if you create limits people will fit their ships to tank the toughest possible spawn, and they will continue farming in the same way they were previously.

NPCs simply can not provide that great a challenge in this game. Just look at incursions, they were supposed to be tough NPCs, now we can blitz a site in a few minutes with no risk of losses.

I mean, your example of people not using a 1 billion ISK ship due to risk of losing it. That's a nice idea, but it wouldn't happen like that. If a 1b ISK ship couldn't handle a mission most players would just fit up a 1.5 billion ISK ship, whack in some crystals and keep going.

[center]"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"  -MXZF[/center]
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#93 - 2012-04-08 07:08:23 UTC
Gankers do this game a thankless service, all those small but loud voices you talked about changing a game for the worse are the same ones calling for a ban to ganking and safe havens in this game.

Gankers help keep the space lanes clear of these individuals whose entitlements know no bounds, despite all the protest the game has grown for a solid decade despite being a niche game in a niche genre. I would attribute it's success to being as harsh as it is and going against the grain rather than being another hand holding clone.

We don't want people who can't understand the heart and soul of EVE, that nowhere is safe, that complacency is death. If you want to change that then we don't want you here.

Bless every ganker that ever made a bleeding heart cancel a sub because they couldn't live with what EVE is and what has made it survive.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
Adunh Slavy
#94 - 2012-04-08 07:11:59 UTC
XIRUSPHERE wrote:
Gankers do this game a thankless service, all those small but loud voices you talked about changing a game for the worse are the same ones calling for a ban to ganking and safe havens in this game.



Yep, so ganker saftey should be removed as well. Looking forward to the first tornado killed by 100 ibis.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#95 - 2012-04-08 07:13:23 UTC
Find a quiet lowsec system or a wormhole, or join a nullsec alliance.

Hisec is not a place for decent people to live in. Move out and your game will improve immensely.

.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2012-04-08 07:33:30 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:


Just admit you like the protection Concord affords criminals. Hiding behind bluster isn't going to get you any where.


A -10 gets no protection from concord, is attacked by the police, pops up as a flashy red and has a skull on their name as well as getting no insurance when they gank.

Its time for the bears to learn that CCP is not going to protect them and they need to take steps themselves.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#97 - 2012-04-08 07:37:44 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
XIRUSPHERE wrote:
Gankers do this game a thankless service, all those small but loud voices you talked about changing a game for the worse are the same ones calling for a ban to ganking and safe havens in this game.



Yep, so ganker saftey should be removed as well. Looking forward to the first tornado killed by 100 ibis.


You only need 1 Ibis.

-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
#98 - 2012-04-08 07:40:45 UTC
There's been plenty of MMO's on the market that had in the amount of a couple of thousand subscribers, and some of them lasted 5-10 years. There's no reason EVE would 'die' because carebears leave it. Tho, CCP definately would have to re-evaluate how much resources they put into the game with less players around. I.e. OP you're wrong.

AFK-cloaking in a system near you.
Desimus Maximus
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#99 - 2012-04-08 07:48:53 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
CCP have both made a profit and continued to grow for a decade. What was your point again?


Yes, Major layoffs. That's usually a sign of great success and rising profits.

lol

The game will be gone before the end of 2013 if HIGH SECURITY space just becomes nullsec light, which it is fast becoming.
Vyl Vit
#100 - 2012-04-08 07:54:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Vyl Vit
Any way you slice it, unless you're just skipping over the uncomfortable parts, the game as it is now favors the criminal. All this bawling about carebears wanting to change the game...the gankers running behind momma CCP's skirt and screaming "cowards!" You can't really believe you can just put it a certain way in text and it all goes away...can you?

**** IF IT WASN'T EASY YOU WOULDN'T BE DOING IT! ****


There. Maybe you can see that at last.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.