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Proteus or Legion
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#1 - 2012-03-29 08:31:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Iria Ahrens
Hey,

I've gotten some responses from friends and all, but asking in the forums gives more room for an in depth response if necessary.

I've just moved to serpentis space and have the skills to go Legion or Proteus. Is the legion so much better than the proteus even in serpentis space or does the proteus come out ahead here? I am mainly playing in low. So a cloaky might be a requirement. Also, being a drone nut, and not doing sleepers, I like my drones. but don't know if proteus is worth it. Especially since I can't do 5 sentries.

My preferred combat style in pve is normally gtfo to range and then take my time clearing out the room from a distance that is immune to fire, and well away from the warp-in point in case some non-friendlies want to play. This was working fine until a certain 5/10 where my ishtar got blown up 10 seconds after warp-in. Friends in the Exploration channel have advised that I go ahead and invest the isk in a t3 so I can do the harder combat sites with the better payouts. T3 apparently have a meaner tank. Any help is appreciated. It will take a few days to get to 4 anyway, so no rush.

Thank you,

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2012-03-29 10:28:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Roime
Hiya,

I'm also considering the Proteus to use alongside my Ishtar for low/null exploration, so can't give any definite answers yet, got still 4 days or so to go until I got all subsyses to V.

However some observations:

- Covert Prot can't use sentries, the covert and drone subsyses go to the same slot
- Without the covops cloak, you'll probably want an MWD for gate escapism, which then doesn't work with sig/speedtanking (what I use with Ishtar
- Drone Prot can use 4 sentries, which means about 120dps less, but it does tank way better. Not sure it it's a good tradeoff, I rather clear the site faster than tank longer

This is what I've come up with so far, by no means perfect yet so comments are more than welcome:


[Proteus, Dronexplorer]

Proteus Defensive - Adaptive Augmenter
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Null M
Expanded Probe Launcher II
Improved Cloaking Device II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Salvager I

Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Codebreaker I

Medium Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Dark Blood Armor Kinetic Hardener
Dark Blood Armor Thermic Hardener
Federation Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor II
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump II
[Empty Rig slot]


Garde II x1
Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5
Hornet EC-300 x5
Garde II x4

Dps is less than Ishtar (both paper & applied), it's a bit slower, smaller cargobay and basically only tanks more and gets the scanning bonus - is it worth it, idk.

Anyone have turret versions that could be better?

.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2012-03-29 10:40:21 UTC
Oh yes and I think the Legion is worse than Proteus due to suboptimal dmg type and resist profile for Serp space.

(and my fit above has better survivability than the Ishtar if someone gets the jump on you because of the plugged explo hole.)

.
Brynhilda
Chimp Hoons Export and Expo Service
Scary Wormhole People
#4 - 2012-03-29 16:25:09 UTC
Legion is superior against Serpentis than a Proteus. I currently live in Serpentis Space and my Legion is doing fine. It doesn't have the perfect damage type or range but it will outperform a Proteus regardless. It has the range you want with Scorch and Liquid Crystal Mags and you can easily tank it against Serpentis with specific hardeners and the like.

How may I drug you with drugs?
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2012-03-29 16:43:53 UTC
First of all, you don't use the same fit for scanning/travelling and combat.
Fit CovOps + MWD + Warpstabs for travelling and switch to a full combat fit once you've scanned something down.

For Serpentis space I'd use the Proteus. Better resist profile, better dmg type. The Legion is a nice ship for omni-dmg with its balanced resist profile, but being limited to EM/Therm (or HAMs with dreadful range) is quite bad.
You can also easily switch one hardener and be an even better plex runner in Guristas space.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#6 - 2012-03-29 19:38:38 UTC
I've toyed with the idea of setting up a blaster/heavy drone Proteus for exploration, specifcally for Serpentis. It would end up looking like this for killing plexes:


[Proteus, plex killer mwd]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Large Capacitor Battery II
Stasis Webifier II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Salvager II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Proteus Offensive - Drone Synthesis Projector
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector


Ogre II x4

And then this for travel/probing:


[Proteus, plex finder mwd]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Expanded Cargohold II
Expanded Cargohold II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive
Large Capacitor Battery II
Codebreaker II

Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Antimatter Charge M
Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I

Proteus Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration
Proteus Propulsion - Localized Injectors
Proteus Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer
Proteus Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
Proteus Defensive - Nanobot Injector


Hobgoblin II x5

Expanded cargoholds are there to carry all your extra drones that you can no longer store in the drone bay without the synthesis projector.

I looked at sentry fits, which are usually my go-to, but the Proteus is really limited there without the Ishtar's extra bandwidth. The MWD/blaster/heavy setup seems like it could work for in your face fighting and it sports enough tank to at least hold its own. Maybe. So far this is just on paper, but that's the idea.
drdxie
#7 - 2012-03-29 20:26:28 UTC
You say your play stayle is : "My preferred combat style in pve is normally gtfo to range and then take my time clearing out the room from a distance that is immune to fire, and well away from the warp-in point in case some non-friendlies want to play."

Well that would imply you should be using a Tengu. Not in your choice, but it works great for me.

Caldari Loving needed.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1608277&#post1608277
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#8 - 2012-03-31 09:21:17 UTC
I already have 2 cruiser Vs, don't want to add another month waiting on another.

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Asim Yakul
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-03-31 09:43:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Asim Yakul
If I may add my 2 cents..

I used to rat in guri 0.0 with an Ishtar and it tanks everything except the 10/10 (the guri that is, the serp 10/10the ishtar can do) without problems. Some you have to be a bit careful how you clear the sites but it works no problem. I then looked into a T3 as well and to be honest, for the isk difference I don't see the real big advantage.

In the end I bought a tengu (I know its not in your list of choices, but just for comparison here) just to see what its all about. So I found it does 150 dps more, and uses the scanning subset which helps.. But it costs a hell of a lot more. You can't run nullified/cloaky when clearing sites so you always have to find a station to change subsystems after having travelled/scanned which is a pita. I now run it in a combat fit with the scanning subsystem but then it loses all stealth advantages. And if you get it popped you lose a lot more isk for what to me is not worth the extra dps/scanning.

Then if you take the proteus you lose the 5th sentry in any case, and the legion will have the same problems changing subsystems. Personally I'd stick with the Ishtar really...
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#10 - 2012-03-31 11:07:57 UTC
Asim Yakul wrote:
If I may add my 2 cents..

I used to rat in guri 0.0 with an Ishtar and it tanks everything except the 10/10 (the guri that is, the serp 10/10the ishtar can do) without problems. Some you have to be a bit careful how you clear the sites but it works no problem. I then looked into a T3 as well and to be honest, for the isk difference I don't see the real big advantage.

In the end I bought a tengu (I know its not in your list of choices, but just for comparision here) just to see what its all about. So I found it does 150 dps more, and uses the scanning subset which helps.. But it costs a hell of a lot more. You can't run nullified/cloaky when clearing sites so you always have to find a station to change subsystems after having travelled/scanned which is a pita. I now run it in a combat fit but with the scanning subsystem but then it loses all stealth advantages. And if you get it popped you lose a lot more isk for what to me is not worth the extra dps/scanning.

Then if you take the proteus you lose the 5th sentry in any case, and the legion will have the same problems changing subsystems. Personally I'd stick with the Ishtar really...


Really? The ishtar can do 10/10... hrm.. maybe I'll stick with the ishtar then. When you say the ishtar, you're talking about a sentry ishtar right, not an ogre one?

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Asim Yakul
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-03-31 11:14:38 UTC
Yep, the sentry ishtar.

You can do a passive shield or an active armour version, the active dual rep mar gets a really nice tank out of it and you do 495 dps with t2 wardens and one sentry dmg rig. Granted the tengu gets a bit more dps.. but the Ishtar is a lot cheaper and does the job almost as well.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#12 - 2012-03-31 11:38:27 UTC
Ohh, active dual rep...

Right now I've got in lows
Corelum C-Type Medium armor rep
True Sansha Thermic Hardener x2
Cap power relay 2
True Sansha Kinetic Hardener

EveHQ says I've got a EHP of 35k and active tank of 520//s vs Serpentis.

Is the dual rep a lot better?

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Asim Yakul
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-03-31 13:11:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Asim Yakul
The dual rep gives me 727 vs serpentis and 1004 vs guri, just a standard t2 fit..

2x MAR II
Thermic hardener II
Kinetic hardener II
Damage control II

If you drop the DC for a 2nd thermic hardener you get 949 vs serp..

Edit: if you drop the dc its no longer cap stable, lasts about 9 minutes. Fit has a cap control rig II.
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#14 - 2012-04-01 02:45:54 UTC
ooh, cap control rig, so no sentry rigs?

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#15 - 2012-04-01 09:30:11 UTC
I gave up on the idea of PVE Proteus, it just isn't better than the Ishtar.

Pure combat ship, I don't really mind tbh Cool

.
Asim Yakul
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2012-04-05 10:43:17 UTC
The Ishtar fit has one cap control rig and one sentry dog rig which makes it cap stable.
CydonianKnight
Arbiters of the Void
#17 - 2012-04-05 11:19:23 UTC
Here's a fit worth thinking about, it works, is cheap, has a cloak and packs a salvager for faction wrecks.

Quote:
[Ishtar, gurista rat2]
Medium Armor Repairer II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Large Peroxide Capacitor Power Cell
10MN Afterburner II

Salvager I
Prototype Cloaking Device I
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor I


Tanks 949DPS says EFT, but it will happily sit through any plex (possibly not a 10/10) as the afterburner keeps it a difficult target to hit. I have used this in guristas and serpentis space to great success.

If you went to fit a better cloak or more in the highs, then use faction hardeners - they tend to be fairly cheap. I personally use an improved cloak, manage to fit a civvie gun for pulling aggro and a remote rep for fixing drones. The price for the fit above comes in just under 250mil.

Also don't forget when using drone rigs it helps to have Drone Rigging at level 3/4 so you don't lose too much CPU.

Hope that helps...
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
#18 - 2012-04-08 03:15:30 UTC
Ok, this is what I designed while I was at sea, just got back...

[Ishtar, Pve active tank]

Prototype Cloaking Device I
Salvager II
3x 75mm Prototype Gauss Gun (Iron Charge S)

Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Experimental 10MN Afterburner I
'Thurifer' Large Capacitor Battery I
'Censer' Medium Capacitor Battery I
True Sansha Cap Recharger

2x Corelum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer
2x True Sansha Armor Thermic Hardener
True Sansha Armor Kinetic Hardener

Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor II

5x Garde II
5x Hammerhead II
5x Warden II
5x Hornet EC-300

EveHQ says tanks 1041 dps (serpentis) cap stable with AB off. and guns on. With guns off and AB on, lasts 6 mins. Stable with ab and 1 rep on for 520dps tank. A bit expensive, although cheaper than a legion. Haven't used this, but it seems in line with the suggestions so far. I didn't forget anything important, also ,are there any tactics I should consider? For example, going into a plex from a accel gate, cloaking before I get targeted and then slow boat to a good range, or just sit in the thick of it and try to blitz it by taking out the commander?

My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#19 - 2012-04-08 08:50:07 UTC
Proteus with a coops cloak has a tiny drone bandwidth. Pilgrim is a much better all in one exploration boat.
Anya Ohaya
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#20 - 2012-04-08 08:52:40 UTC
Quote:

Medium Sentry Damage Augmentor II


Only 47 million ISK at a station near you.
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