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EVE economics, care bears, pirates
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#21 - 2012-04-07 21:29:34 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Vyl Vit wrote:



And Other Urban Myths...let me know when your book comes out.



SOE made SWG safe for all. It died a month later.
Screenlag
Armaggedon Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
#22 - 2012-04-07 21:30:11 UTC
wait, I thought sony ****** up by making the game more casual? I may have been late to the party, but the swg I played was pretty much like wow
Ty Fox
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-04-07 21:35:00 UTC
First off, I think this thread is entirely a troll, but against my better judgment I'm posting my 0.02 isk.

Let's say you have a store in your town that offers sandwiches, you can have ANY kind of sandwich under the sun, and people enjoy the shop because they can get whatever the hell they want between two pieces of bread. What happens when the shop decides to forbid wacky sandwich combinations? Their reputation changes and they become just another shop, much like EVE would become just another MMO. EVE is a specialty MMO in that there is no real right or wrong way to play it, and preventing people from making the decision to gank someone in hisec just because the victim of the gank might have their feelings hurt is just absurd. It's not the notion of taking out hisec ganking that would disturb EVE players, it's telling the players they can't do something.

Personally, I think carebears need to HTFU, but that's been repeated ad nauseum in threads like this.
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#24 - 2012-04-07 21:36:26 UTC
im not saying get rid of PVP, but i am saying that the implimentation of the security measures to protect players from ganking/greifing or what ever you want to call it have been poorly implimented. its hard to stop a suicide bomber
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#25 - 2012-04-07 21:36:56 UTC
Screenlag wrote:
wait, I thought sony ****** up by making the game more casual? I may have been late to the party, but the swg I played was pretty much like wow


They removed the penalties of death (decay) and made the game super easy. The deathwatch bunker went from skull ******* everyone who entered to being soloable by taping down the attack button. They also gutted to pvp system to make it "safer" for people who wanted to grind LP and got rid of "jedi sight" which was a very cool system where anyone spotted with a lightsaber got every bounty hunter in the galaxy chasing them.

Many more things happed but you get the picture.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#26 - 2012-04-07 21:38:05 UTC
Gunrunner1775 wrote:
im not saying get rid of PVP, but i am saying that the implimentation of the security measures to protect players from ganking/greifing or what ever you want to call it have been poorly implimented. its hard to stop a suicide bomber


Its stupidly easy, its just people don't defend themselves.
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#27 - 2012-04-07 21:39:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Indahmawar Fazmarai
baltec1 wrote:
CCP have both made a profit and continued to grow for a decade. What was your point again?


They haven't grown for a year and are launching very agressive offers to drive new players. FAi, they partnered a giant corporation to distribute their game in an unexploited market, Japan. And yet PCU is on the verge of stagnation, growing below the natural demography trend (that is, EVE is growing slower than its target age group).

And anyway none of these change that a loud minority can kill a game to a silent majority and to the developers unless the developers play very smart.

I saw that happen in POTBS, whose similarities to EVE are unsetting.

POTBS was independent developed.
Was a niche MMO.
It had a loud minority making a lot of noise in the forums.
The developers catered to that minortiy as the subscriptions shrinked. The voices in the forum warning that developers were listening to the wrong guys rather than adress the core issues were ignored.
POTBSs shrinked from 15 servers to 3.
SOE took over control of the release.
Then SOE decided that POTBS went FTP.
Last time i checked, none of the 3 last servers had a high user count...

Guess what noisy minoriy was catered until everyone else quit the game? PvPrs.
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#28 - 2012-04-07 21:39:25 UTC
Create -> Destroy -> Rebuild

The essential cycle of a pvp sandbox game.
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#29 - 2012-04-07 21:39:34 UTC
The point is you actually have absolutely zero idea how many people "ganking" includes or excludes with respect to the playerbase.

You just don't know, so the entire argument is pointless.
Vyl Vit
#30 - 2012-04-07 21:41:10 UTC
Ty Fox wrote:
First off, I think this thread is entirely a troll, but against my better judgment I'm posting my 0.02 isk.

Let's say you have a store in your town that offers sandwiches, you can have ANY kind of sandwich under the sun, and people enjoy the shop because they can get whatever the hell they want between two pieces of bread. What happens when the shop decides to forbid wacky sandwich combinations? Their reputation changes and they become just another shop, much like EVE would become just another MMO. EVE is a specialty MMO in that there is no real right or wrong way to play it, and preventing people from making the decision to gank someone in hisec just because the victim of the gank might have their feelings hurt is just absurd. It's not the notion of taking out hisec ganking that would disturb EVE players, it's telling the players they can't do something.

Personally, I think carebears need to HTFU, but that's been repeated ad nauseum in threads like this.

Let's say you have a store in town, but a block away from getting there, a handful of hoodlums jump you and steal your money! Then, let's say you report that to the appropriate authorities. The cops set up an ambush, they net the anti-socials. The sandwich guy gets to sell his sandwiches. You get to buy them. They go to jail to think to themselves how smart they are...for a few years.

Yeah. Good analogy.

Paradise is like where you are right now, only much, much better.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#31 - 2012-04-07 21:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
As a casual gamer myself, I say no to safe havens. CCP made it clear that only the few newbie starter systems can be safe in some sense but those systems are quickly abandoned even by the newbies because there it's no profit, at least not the sort they are looking for. Once the newbies leave those worthless systems, they are fair game and must learn to survive on their own like I did when I left the starter systems for the first time. I fell for the old can baits, I lost a bunch of ships, some due to neutral reps, and I was even ganked multiple times while mining. Did I quit? **** no. I pushed along and adapted. I never went back to any other mmo because those didn't offer the kind of player-driven interaction that EVE online offers. Not only that, this game truly does live up to it's reputation as a hard game. And besides, to each their own because there will never be an mmo that will satisfy everybody.

Adapt or Die
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#32 - 2012-04-07 21:41:33 UTC
as far as SoE, was refering to everquest game to the planes of power/gates of discord expansions that were tailored to the raider group only, witnessed a serious decline in population in that game, and yea, SWG went wacked when they changed it up in fall of 04, i even quit then
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#33 - 2012-04-07 21:42:33 UTC
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:
[
They haven't grown for a year and are launching very agressive offers to drive new players.


Dispite the events of last year EVE did grow, just not as rappidly as other years.
Ty Fox
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#34 - 2012-04-07 21:50:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Ty Fox
Vyl Vit wrote:
Ty Fox wrote:
First off, I think this thread is entirely a troll, but against my better judgment I'm posting my 0.02 isk.

Let's say you have a store in your town that offers sandwiches, you can have ANY kind of sandwich under the sun, and people enjoy the shop because they can get whatever the hell they want between two pieces of bread. What happens when the shop decides to forbid wacky sandwich combinations? Their reputation changes and they become just another shop, much like EVE would become just another MMO. EVE is a specialty MMO in that there is no real right or wrong way to play it, and preventing people from making the decision to gank someone in hisec just because the victim of the gank might have their feelings hurt is just absurd. It's not the notion of taking out hisec ganking that would disturb EVE players, it's telling the players they can't do something.

Personally, I think carebears need to HTFU, but that's been repeated ad nauseum in threads like this.

Let's say you have a store in town, but a block away from getting there, a handful of hoodlums jump you and steal your money! Then, let's say you report that to the appropriate authorities. The cops set up an ambush, they net the anti-socials. The sandwich guy gets to sell his sandwiches. You get to buy them. They go to jail to think to themselves how smart they are...for a few years.

Yeah. Good analogy.



The variety in sandwiches was more or less my representation of EVE being a "have it your way" type of game, not a representation of carebears and their relation to suicide gankers. There ARE counters to gankers, you know. Fitting a better tank, having appropriate intel, even monitoring D scan every now and then would help.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-04-07 21:56:23 UTC
The thing is I'm an industrialist. I build guns for anybody that wants to buy them. I don't have a problem with gankers, but Vyl Vit, seems to be crying up a storm about them. Why such vitriol? Did one of your alts get ganked?

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#36 - 2012-04-07 22:09:14 UTC
Ty Fox wrote:
Vyl Vit wrote:
Ty Fox wrote:
First off, I think this thread is entirely a troll, but against my better judgment I'm posting my 0.02 isk.

Let's say you have a store in your town that offers sandwiches, you can have ANY kind of sandwich under the sun, and people enjoy the shop because they can get whatever the hell they want between two pieces of bread. What happens when the shop decides to forbid wacky sandwich combinations? Their reputation changes and they become just another shop, much like EVE would become just another MMO. EVE is a specialty MMO in that there is no real right or wrong way to play it, and preventing people from making the decision to gank someone in hisec just because the victim of the gank might have their feelings hurt is just absurd. It's not the notion of taking out hisec ganking that would disturb EVE players, it's telling the players they can't do something.

Personally, I think carebears need to HTFU, but that's been repeated ad nauseum in threads like this.

Let's say you have a store in town, but a block away from getting there, a handful of hoodlums jump you and steal your money! Then, let's say you report that to the appropriate authorities. The cops set up an ambush, they net the anti-socials. The sandwich guy gets to sell his sandwiches. You get to buy them. They go to jail to think to themselves how smart they are...for a few years.

Yeah. Good analogy.



The variety in sandwiches was more or less my representation of EVE being a "have it your way" type of game, not a representation of carebears and their relation to suicide gankers. There ARE counters to gankers, you know. Fitting a better tank, having appropriate intel, even monitoring D scan every now and then would help.


Let's say that every time you go to the sandwich shop a gang steals some of your money and sandwiches.

Now let's say that the law says that you are entitled to steal their money and sandwiches if you can, but you can't put them in jail, you can't beat them, you can't scare the sh*t of them and you can't kill them. You must take that they will steal you forever as the powers that be want a city were crime is fun and has no consequences.

I don't know you, but I would leave the city...

...and then would bring back an army and would burn in a stake every last SOB until they learned to fear Civilization. Twisted
Adunh Slavy
#37 - 2012-04-07 22:22:03 UTC

How about a town with this sandwhich shop where everyone can carry a gun. In this town some of the less savory folks have a big yellow sign on their head "Bad Person". You can shoot them before they mug you and before the police have to get involved.

That sounds better than safe zones, and a whole lot more fun.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt
Pop Bear
Doomheim
#38 - 2012-04-07 22:27:49 UTC
nice troll 0/10

Yeah lets ruin the game and make Eve easy because some people are stupid and can't fugure out how to protect themselves in the safest part of space!!!
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#39 - 2012-04-07 22:29:25 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:

How about a town with this sandwhich shop where everyone can carry a gun. In this town some of the less savory folks have a big yellow sign on their head "Bad Person". You can shoot them before they mug you and before the police have to get involved.

That sounds better than safe zones, and a whole lot more fun.



now that i could not agree with more
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#40 - 2012-04-07 22:33:23 UTC
Personally If Iwas getting a sammich in that city I would pull up in the drivethrough in one of these.