Market Discussions

Except that CCP aren't producing a finance-management program; they're producing a game. It's not their job to make sure that no-one using their software loses money.

They've given you an easy method to see what amount you've entered by nicely formatting the numbers, and they've included a pop-up saying 'are you sure you want to do this?'. If you still enter a ridiculous price, then the correct response from the game is to assume that you know what you're doing - or do you also think that CCP should prevent people putting skill-books up for 100x the NPC price hoping to catch a lazy buyer, or buying up all the stock in a region and relisting at five times the price in an attempt to manipulate the market?

As a dev myself I'm telling people "Its not a bug, its a feature" too. It's my main excuse too

I'm a new player and immediately noticed this as an obvious market bug, even if it was this case 9 years long. Everbody who trades on real markets knows that.

So if it is a bug, what is the fix?

You do know that you get warned if you try to execute a transaction too far from the average price, don't you? You can't really be proposing that you are prevented from setting up orders too far from the average.

I think a decent enhancement would be to allow people to control the variance from mean at which the warning dialogue pops up, but that can't be described as a bug fix.

Every time someone types "straw man" or "straw man argument" it makes me want to projectile diarrhea. Please stop. Your freshman year logic courses were great, but it makes you sound like an even bigger tool than the person whose argument you are refuting.

Nothing personal Adunh, but please stop.

[/rage]

What also helps is create your own one-man corp. Park a ****-load of ISK there, your savings account, if you will. Trade with what you are comfortable with, and if you mess up on a market order, you will only lose what's in your personal wallet, and not your corporation wallet.

Very well, how about this? EVE Online is a PvP-centered MMO. That means the main purpose of the software is to enable players to compete with each other - mostly in terms of shooting each other in internet spaceships, true, but market PvP is still a significant part of the game. Furthermore, it's a game that explicitly allows scamming, espionage, treachery and otherwise gaining the upper hand by whatever means possible. It's fairly clear that the intended result of carelessness or stupidity in EVE is losing all your stuff - generally to another player who was less careless.

What you are proposing is that when a player does something dumb - ignoring or bypassing two safety mechanisms already built into the UI to do so - CCP should ensure that the mistake doesn't cost him anything, rather than allow another player to profit from his error. That's hardly the action of an impartial referee, which is the role that they should be playing.

Then what, exactly, do you want the Devs to do?

Preventing orders that are more than a certain distance from the current average is unacceptable. Firstly, there are a number of perfectly valid (if underhanded) reasons for placing orders with very high or low prices. Secondly, it would likely be too open to exploitation by anyone with large amounts of ISK. And thirdly, it's more-or-less the opposite to EVE's general philosophy that your actions (including your mistakes) have consequences.

Changing the priority of the two orders so that the sale goes through at the price of the older one rather than the new one would be less objectionable but also wouldn't solve the 'problem'. A mistake in choosing your price would still cause you to lose money - just less of it - and that's assuming that there were enough orders up already to instantly fill it when it was posted. If not, you've just guaranteed that the remaining items will be bought at the full price you set regardless of what the other party chooses as their price. You also run afoul of the law of unintended consequences, since one side effect would be to make the margin trading scam 100% foolproof regardless of either the player's or character's skills.

My dictionary defines 'equivocate' as 'use language that can be understood in more than one way in order to avoid the truth', so I'm not sure you're using the right word there. However, in an attempt to be totally clear: EVE online is a competitive player-versus-player game. Therefore, the software should allow one player to profit from a mistake made by another player.

If you honestly still think that's ambiguous, I'm not sure what I can do. If you think it's wrong, then perhaps you should give a slightly more detailed response.


Very simple indeed - once you've decided what the limit should be. So I'll repeat my question: what do you you want the Devs to do? Prevent an order more than 50% above or below the average? More than 10% above or below the current min/max? Do you seriously believe that players should never be allowed to enter an order that the system deems 'too extreme', even if they want to?

My mistake, I misunderstood your previous post.

I can assure you, however, the current system already does act as a limit order. If you place a buy order, you will buy the goods at or below the price you set; a sell order behaves similarly.

The case we are discussing here is when a second limit order is established overlapping with the first. This means that any of a range of values is perfectly valid for both orders. The code then has to chose some point in said range to actually conduct the transaction at, and I personally feel that they've chosen the correct implementation; essentially 'first come, first served'.

If someone has already offered to sell at anything over 50 ISK and you offer to buy at anything under 100 ISK, you should expect them to jump at the chance - which is where my other arguments about not protecting players from their mistakes comes in.

Don't Drink and Eve.

All right.
I began to make my money back trading implants.

Being targeted multiple times around Jita I was thinking how it is a good idea to fly a fast frigate to haul these precious things.
Hey! You can't lock me and shoot before I warp light years away!

Approaching Perimeter Stargate with some implants in my cargo, while still in warping, I see the notifications icon blinking.
Hmmm? Storyline mission?
Not exactly, I wake up in my clone and see horified that I have been smartbombed by an Armaggeddon.
A good move, nothing to say.

Do you ever had the feeling to be cursed? Cause I do.