EVE General Discussion

Offtopic posts removed.

Well, obviously CCP switching to the new graphics engine definitely had a lot to do with scrapping the old Ambulation work.

As for the plans of having Social areas for WiS, I could be mistaken but I don't recall seeing any Official CCP statement saying there wasn't going to be any Social areas implemented for WiS.

But when you think about it, this new content being added to the game should have aspects that appeal to all styles of game play. In doing so, I'm sure it's a very monumental task to undertake with a lot of obstacles to overcome.

And believe me, I'm not advocating that players should be allowed to gank Avatars right after they step out of the Captains Quarters. However, the option to do Avatar PvP should be included somewhere within WiS game play content.

When something is put on the back burner and left there, that basically prevents it from being further developed. Also if the amount of members in Team Avatar were to be doubled or tripled, it would increase their productivity allowing them to work on other aspects for WiS game play content. Such as Player Owned Establishments, Corporate Meeting Rooms, fully functional Command Centers, Avatar PvP action, etc.

First aspect is to get multiple Avatars able to be rendered in the same area doing limited interaction without causing lag, crashing to bluescreen or worse. The Social areas like Corporate Meeting Rooms and Player Owned Establishments would easily provide that platform. When that's up and running good, then it would be time to work on the next aspect - fully functioning Command Centers. After that is up and running good, the next aspect would be Avatar PvP action.

Holding back on releasing the first aspect until the last aspect is completed and working good sounds like a full blown major expansion, which would take years to develop. Maybe I'm viewing this incorrectly but since 2012 is all centered on FiS and War Mechanics, hopefully 2013 will have the first aspect for WiS released consisting of Player Owned Establishments and Corporate Meeting Rooms.

Maybe CCP plans to release all aspects at the same time and if that's the case, then no WiS expansions probably till 2015 at the earliest.

I disent. Provide people a way to interact and they will interact. What happens next will depend on the tools provided, but will be always larger than what you plan them to do. Social gameplay is the key to add WiS to the emergent experience of EVE.

So far A-Team is working on what is, essentially, dungeon raiding. Certainly that's gameplay, but also is "theme park MMO" content. Once you run the n-th dungeon, what use is left for WiS? (sounds ironical coming from a guy who ran over 2,000 missions in 3 years)... Anyway, this kind of "ride content" requires a lof ot developing: level building, stage triggering, NPC AI... And certainly it is fun and interesting; there are whole games based upon that... almost every mainstream MMO but EVE, to be frank. But, is "ride WiS" enough? EVE is about emergent gameplay, and that's all built upon how does people interact, and here we have it back: social gameplay is the mother of all emergent gameplay. We don't KNOW what people will do in advance, the same as most of EVE's 100 professions are not actually designed by CCP devs, rather emerged out of the mechanics.

You see, I've been smelling rats on the whole A-Team issue since the beginning. I do *want* to believe them but as far as we know they could be testing dungeon raiding gameplay for World of Darkness and we wouldn't be able to tell the difference (FAI).

People does what they want to do. Mittens wanted to leave the CSM with a flash and a bang and did it. And CCP wants to develop dungeon raiding in a couple years rather than put the existing avatars to an use.

They're entitled to do so, as it's their game. But we also are entitled to object to it.

The problem with 'Social Gameplay' is that, until recently, CCP were focused on the 'social' and forgot about the 'gameplay'. Allowing players the opportunity to interact is all very well but if all you provide is a rehash of existing tools with new graphics stuck on top what's the point? If I want to chat to other eve players I have in-game chat channels, I have voice comms, I have jabber, I have eve-o and other forums, I have Fanfest and local evemeets... why do I need CCP's art department to spend all those man-hours designing a pretend internet spacebar so I can socialise in the same way as I do already with some avatar graphics tacked on?

Soundwave was talking at Fanfest about how he thought mining was an under-rated form of 'social gameplay' because it enabled groups of people to come together and co-operate and keep each other involved, whilst if they were running it solo they'd give up through sheer mind-numbing boredom (I'm paraphrasing slightly). He probably has a point, but there still has to be an in-game gameplay purpose attached to the activity in the first place. Putting 10 avatars in a pretend bar with nothing to do but chat in the local channel that already exists, walk around the room, and buy pretend beer and pretend to get drunk isn't going to produce anything emergent or interesting. Those 10 player avatars may as well undock and go start a mining op.

I mostly agree, WiS seems to have come about from the same 2005-06 mindset that bought us Titans and the White Wolf acquisition, where various CCP management types got intoxicated on their own hubris and decided "lets do X because it will be COOL AND AWESOME" without stopping to consider rationally how it should be implemented or what it would add to Eve or CCP as a whole, and as a result have suffered greatly from contact with harsh realities further down the road. Now that CCP and Eve have all these things they may as well try to make the best of them, but lets not mince words about the problems in the way they initially came about.


Didn't CCP already try that approach when they released Incarna? I hear that expansion turned out really well.

Well, HELIC0N ONE wrote a well constructed reply which I commend him for but the main subject premise is flawed and incorrect even though Doc Fury states otherwise. The underlying theme in his reply is that all the various aspects of Ambulation that was promised by CCP years ago is not game play content and doesn't belong in Eve which by the way, players had expected that content with the Incarna expansion and obviously it wasn't delivered.

First I'd like to point out that making WiS content remove functionality from existing features or have interaction with WiS content mandatory is wrong. Removing the option of choice is something most players will rage about including me. That was one of the major issue's during the Incarna Rage Fest last summer.

Anyway, I think a lot of players will agree with me when I say that HELIC0N ONE is wrong, no matter how many times Doc Fury states otherwise. But for right now let's forget about players and take a look at CCP.

CCP advertises EVE Online as a Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game (MMORPG) set in a futuristic SyFy space environment...

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:


So going by that definition, enabling Avatars to interact within Corporate Meeting Rooms, Player Owned Establishments, Command Centers, etc, would add much more immersion to the Role-Playing aspect of Eve Online. Doesn't matter if you can already access all those functions via other controls. The point is if those aspects of WiS are left out, then Role Players will not view this game as interesting or fun. Basically they will be deprived of being able to enjoy a very important part of their playstyle.

As for HELIC0N ONE's statement:
An avatar-based graphical interface adds nothing to Eve but a larger footprint on our hard drives and increased minimum specs to run the game.

I'm sorry but times are changing and people need to change with the times. In other words, upgrade your computer. I did and it wasn't something I wanted to do. 'Nuff said bout that'.

Now for HELIC0N ONE's statement about letting Team Avatar figure out what WiS is for, basic gameplay concepts, additions, what should be included / excluded, etc.

Well, I pretty much agree but point out the fact that Team Avatar has asked us, the player base, to submit our ideas and expectations for WiS content in this thread as well as the sticky thread in Features & Ideas sub-forum. I think Team Avatar will try to create and implement what the player base majority submits. So basically if the majority stated they want bars, poker tables and the Mos Eisley Cantina Band, then I imagine Team Avatar will probably be working on that.

In regards to the WiS content (so quaintly described as pointless fluff by HELIC0N ONE) which supposedly CCP will not be adding to WiS, this is what I have to say: I'll believe it when I see it.

Post a link to an Official CCP statement saying they will not be adding any Corporate Meeting Rooms, Player Owned Establishments, Command Centers, etc.

I've already provided a direct quotation from Eve's Creative Director saying that their initial concept for WiS, of 'social environments' and customisation, was flawed, that they've stopped working in that direction, and that currently the plan is to work on designing concrete gameplay styles that will relate more to the way Eve is already played on the other side of the undock.

You may as well be trying to claim that WiS will have lightsabres and cameos by The Powerpuff Girls, since I suspect there aren't any Official CCP Statements explicitly denying this either.

GAWD you fail hard without even trying.

Those 'resources' were wasted due to switching over to a new graphics engine. Teamspeak, Skype, EVE Voice, etc are communication venues, nothing more. Not to mention you also left out the Keyboard.

Anyway, this game is all about graphics and the visual experience which greatly adds to immersion. Also you really should do some research. Eve Online is advertised as a MMORPG. Look it up, read it and weep.

While you're at it, take your space pants troll crap somewhere else.

They say what they think, and we say what we think.

Now guess WHO pays WHO's wages.

And past April 30th I will not care about this game until i hear some news that make me feel like paying for it again.


BTW, I find it ironical that dungeon raiding is your idea of "EVE gameplay". They could as mcuh as add some new Lvl4's just for the sake of novelty.