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Crime & Punishment

 
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Blown outside jita 4-4, prevention?

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Dustin Roac
#1 - 2011-09-27 07:28:30 UTC
As this is my money maker, and I'm comfortbly running level 4's now I'm just trying to get more efficient at them. So after gettin ga bestower full of loot, I make my usual trip to 4-4 to offload it. It just so happened I got to log off for a couple hours after making my orders then coming back to see a lot of them filled, and I'm able to buy a couple of goodies to hopefully make my missioning better, and stock up on some missiles.

So I've got roughtly around 100-150mil items, in particilar a gist-a kin hardner and a gist-a therm hardner, along with about 10,000 assorted T2 missiles.

I undock as usual click my gate and click warp to. and see someone target locking me

I know right then I'm not going to make it.

KillMail

I know better than to smack talk, especially after something so minimal. While I did immediately log off as I was a bit pissed, but put it aside, logged back on and bought me another bestower and fitted it, got some more missiles and went back to grind again.


After looking at the killmail though, and seeing he was in an apoc, I have to wonder, that seems like a high risk for a suicide gank. The thermal hardner was the most at about 65mil, the kin one was 50, and only one of them dropped. a few mil in the missiles dropped... Even if everything had dropped it seemed like a very small profit margin for a suicide right outside the station

But that thought aside, I also wonder how am I supposed to prevent this? Something tells me not to expect this unless I'm hauling a VERY expensive load, but in that case, am I supposed to use sealed cargo, just stay way from hubs, etc.. ?

Props to the guy, it was a one shot kill as far as I saw, but am I missing something or did he come out negative on that deal?
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#2 - 2011-09-27 07:47:29 UTC
It cost him 25m at most, depends if he has a chance to scoop his loot back, and what dropped but it could cost less.

I'm sure you realise he hardly has a chance to reship to something cheaper so the Apoc is the one size fits all of suicide ganks.

In your instance, the odds are in his favour and he only has a short moment to decide if he is going to kill you or not so seeing 2x gist XXXXXX modules is usually good enough.

Are you sure you weren't under war dec and didn't realise it since he is in the orphanage after all.

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#3 - 2011-09-27 07:52:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathan Jameson
Dustin Roac wrote:
I undock as usual click my gate and click warp to. and see someone target locking me


Aha, I see the issue.

Make an undock safe spot directly in the direction of travel when you undock. For example, warp to Jita IV Moon 1 and create a bookmark along the way.

Next time that you undock in anything fancy, warp to this safe spot instead of any gate. You'll go to warp instantly (or near so, depending on if you get bumped) and get out of the Jita 4-4 killzone.

As for other gates along the way, manual pilot and use a ship with a buffer tank to survive until Concord shows up. If you can afford Deep Space Haulers or even Orcas, those are the way to go.

http://www.wormholes.info
Dustin Roac
#4 - 2011-09-27 07:54:23 UTC
Kitty McKitty wrote:
It cost him 25m at most, depends if he has a chance to scoop his loot back, and what dropped but it could cost less.

I'm sure you realise he hardly has a chance to reship to something cheaper so the Apoc is the one size fits all of suicide ganks.

In your instance, the odds are in his favour and he only has a short moment to decide if he is going to kill you or not so seeing 2x gist XXXXXX modules is usually good enough.

Are you sure you weren't under war dec and didn't realise it since he is in the orphanage after all.



This char for mission purposes has never left the NPC corp, so it wasn't a wardec.

I just figured if it was a continual thing he was doing, surely there were more appealing targets coming in and out. I've crawled out of there in more isk than that in missiles, normally.

It just got me thinking, there's always large groups just sitting around there. If I actually had a very expensive or somewhat important haul coming out of there Is it a safer bet to just contract it out to say red frog freight, or will secure containers stop scans, (or I would think likely make them more attractive targets).
Dustin Roac
#5 - 2011-09-27 07:57:23 UTC
Nathan Jameson wrote:
Dustin Roac wrote:
I undock as usual click my gate and click warp to. and see someone target locking me


Aha, I see the issue.

Make an undock safe spot directly in the direction of travel when you undock. For example, warp to Jita IV Moon 1 and create a bookmark along the way.

Next time that you undock in anything fancy, warp to this safe spot instead of any gate. You'll go to warp instantly (or near so, depending on if you get bumped) and get out of the Jita 4-4 killzone.

As for other gates along the way, manual pilot and use a ship with a buffer tank to survive until Concord shows up. If you can afford Deep Space Haulers or even Orcas, those are the way to go.



I'll have to do this, would have saved me... maybe I suppose. It wasn't an instant lock.. probably 4-6 seconds. But I know enough to know my align times and I was a goner. I have heard of those insta-BM's but never thought I needed one yet.. Guess it's time as I'm getting into the more expensive stuff.
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#6 - 2011-09-27 08:07:04 UTC
If you are confident enough and willing to add a little security to your shopping trips then you can learn about insta undocks and mwd/cloak warping from gates (or simply moving high value mods in something more tankable than a bestower)

If not, or you just want convenience, buy remotely and set up contracts to have stuff moved. Be sure the collateral at LEAST covers the cost of the mods and the payout is decent enough. You don't have to use Red Frog but I have occasionally had people failing contracts due to suicide ganks in the past when I just put them up for anyone. No skin off my nose as I actually profit from the collateral albeit slighty. What I lose from that is the timeliness of my deliveries.

It's your call.

Old but overall relevant... http://eve.grismar.net/wikka.php?wakka=NinjaHauling&show_comments=1

insta undock info.... http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Safespot#.22Station.22_Safe_Spot

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
Nicolai Xperte
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2011-09-27 08:21:37 UTC
As said by previous replies about the instant warp on undock simply grab a frig wit a mwd and just undock click the mwd. After 150km set a book mark and u will be good to go. Another thing u have kill rights if u know he is a regular to the system get ur self in a combat ship and get u a free km it will give u some satisfaction.

I don't always bring out my Absolution.

But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol.
Shasz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-09-27 13:57:28 UTC
Bestowers have mid slots too, just like all the other ships. Try putting some tank on it.

Low slots aren't just for cargo expanders, try putting some tank there too.

If you want to fly high value, small volume items like Gist-A or officer loot, don't use a paper-thin industrial, use a tanked ship that warps quicker. Industrials are for the large volumes like your piles of missiles.

The quick-warp undock bookmark will help you get out of station, but once you're traveling the gates, you still would've gotten ganked.



tl;dr: Tank your ship. Don't haul Faberge Eggs in a U-haul truck.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#9 - 2011-09-27 15:07:24 UTC
Shield tanked Battleship with extenders, a DC2 and Invulns.

Sure, you might only get 2000 odd m3 of space, but you'll be carrying it in something that can stand up to most alpha strikes. (multiple at that). You're not safe, but you're not running around in an eggshell.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Ikka Sunto
Impen Reloaded
#10 - 2011-09-27 15:08:40 UTC
Like others said, insta-undock warps spots and transport ships are good, but I've also found that simply using a couple of GSCs will stop most gankers in ships larger than cruisers. Most gankers don't want to lose a ship for a kill that has empty GSCs, or GSCs full of missiles. And since you can't scan what's inside the GSC, most gankers won't risk it. Just tank enough that you can withstand a thrasher or two for about 10 seconds, and wait for Concord to save you.
Nathan Jameson
Grumpy Bastards
#11 - 2011-09-27 15:12:40 UTC
Ikka Sunto wrote:
And since you can't scan what's inside the GSC


Not entirely accurate.

http://www.wormholes.info
Darius III
Interstellar eXodus
#12 - 2011-09-27 17:24:50 UTC
Ikka Sunto wrote:
Like others said, insta-undock warps spots and transport ships are good, but I've also found that simply using a couple of GSCs will stop most gankers in ships larger than cruisers. Most gankers don't want to lose a ship for a kill that has empty GSCs, or GSCs full of missiles. And since you can't scan what's inside the GSC, most gankers won't risk it. Just tank enough that you can withstand a thrasher or two for about 10 seconds, and wait for Concord to save you.



You can see inside GSC's-don't listen to this guy. You cannot see an assembled container in a cargo scan, you can only see it's contents.

This article talks about avoiding the gank: http://www.eve-tribune.com/index.php?no=6_34&page=3

Hmmm
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2011-09-27 17:46:11 UTC
Dustin Roac wrote:


Props to the guy, it was a one shot kill as far as I saw, but am I missing something or did he come out negative on that deal?





You know, sometimes it is just for the lulz...and not always about the loot.
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-09-27 18:06:56 UTC
The main objective aside from undock warp points...is not to fly obvious hauling ships out of Jita.

Hell...don't shop at Jita unless you cant avoid it.

Honestly if I need a "Bestowers" worth of cargo...Id fly a battleship fully tanked or a Transport Ship with tank designed to survive an onslaught of that magnitude.

Still use a bookmark regardless.

I beleive the ship you'd want is an Impel Class.

Even then...small goodies that valuable? A less obvious ship would be best...

Like a frigate...or a cruiser.

NOT A shuttle.

I tend to use an Orca hoenstly...cause you can't scan corp hangers. Cool

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De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2011-09-27 18:12:30 UTC
Shasz wrote:



tl;dr: Tank your ship. Don't haul Faberge Eggs in a U-haul truck.



This is the most important lesson you should learn from this.

If you are carrying small, high value items, use a small, well tanked, fast aligning ship. Battle cruisers work well, as do T3 cruisers. Then fit it to minimize your align time and maximize your tank. For really small items, choose speed over tank. For example, I tend to use stealth bombers to move things like implants and blueprints.

Some ECM drones wouldn't go amiss either, assuming you can use and fit them, but be careful with those as you won't be able to jump or redock until your aggression counter ends.

Sucks on your loss. Hope the advise helps.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#16 - 2011-09-27 18:24:35 UTC
Now that people have answered your actual question, I have to ask about the title of this thread.
Namely, why would you want to prevent getting blown outside anywhere?

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#17 - 2011-09-27 18:39:07 UTC
Dirk Magnum wrote:
Now that people have answered your actual question, I have to ask about the title of this thread.
Namely, why would you want to prevent getting blown outside anywhere?


I was going to post a similar thing.

Now that you know how to avoid getting ganked next time, to answer the actual question in the title: Try to avoid any ladies loitering outside the station, in the shadows.

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
Zeta Zhul
Preemptive Paranoia
#18 - 2011-09-27 18:40:44 UTC
Here's a question I can't remember if I've ever gotten an answer for:

If you get ganked, such as the OP, and have kill rights on someone. Just how far do those kill rights extend? Instead of killing the guy could I instead ... fit a Scorpion in an ewar setup with huge tank and then just mess with the guy every time he tries to lock someone up for a month?

Not hassling someone but every now and then if I'm bored and he's online in Jita?
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-09-27 18:49:43 UTC
Kitty McKitty wrote:
Dirk Magnum wrote:
Now that people have answered your actual question, I have to ask about the title of this thread.
Namely, why would you want to prevent getting blown outside anywhere?


I was going to post a similar thing.

Now that you know how to avoid getting ganked next time, to answer the actual question in the title: Try to avoid any ladies loitering outside the station, in the shadows.


The OP never said anything about ladies... O.o
Drake Draconis
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2011-09-27 19:10:23 UTC
Zeta Zhul wrote:
Here's a question I can't remember if I've ever gotten an answer for:

If you get ganked, such as the OP, and have kill rights on someone. Just how far do those kill rights extend? Instead of killing the guy could I instead ... fit a Scorpion in an ewar setup with huge tank and then just mess with the guy every time he tries to lock someone up for a month?

Not hassling someone but every now and then if I'm bored and he's online in Jita?



Odds are by the time you get around too it..he's likely long gone or you won't be in a posistion to retaliate.

As to the kill rights bit...30 days If I'm not mistakened....and I don't think you can pod him....not sure.

correct me If I'm wrong.

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