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Removal of Invention
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Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-04-05 20:03:01 UTC
So according to the latest data dump CCP is eliminating research agents and making datacores a faction wars LP item. Put another way they are taking content and moving it to low sec. As we all should now be quite well aware, moving content to low sec in effect removes it from the game for most purposes. There are simply not enough people participating in FW to keep the market supplied with datacores, basically at any LP point cost. Looking at the data from when invention was released, before datacore RP prices dropped, we are looking at prices of several million a core.

How will the constructive removal of invention effect your business? With the addition of faction items to market at the same time as a t2 price spike, will people move from T2 to faction?

Personally, I'm expecting economic collapse. PvPers simply are going to be unwilling to pay 2005 era prices for gear (15m for a T2 invulnerability anyone).
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#2 - 2012-04-05 20:08:30 UTC
Not really it's just going to make loads of people do faction warfare as the reward for data cores will rise sharply. The winners as all ways will be CCP pets with T2BPO who don't need invention. I imagine pvp allinces in these low sec systems are about to make a shed load of ISK in rent too.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#3 - 2012-04-05 20:10:41 UTC
I'll be in hot water and selling 2 toons most likely. My indy alts make isk through invention.

That said, this is assuming all datacores are only available through faction warfare LP and that such datacores do not keep their current price.

Still, I have heard a lot of conflicting rumors. It's only ship engineering datacores, r&d agents will produce a lower quantity, it's all datacores, r&d are gone. (funny how there is no talk about reinbursing the skill points for the skill to have multiple r&d agents).

All that said, I think this is just a wait and see. If done right, this could be a very minor shift which has no impact, or it could be the disaster the op fears. It really is just a wait and see kind of event.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#4 - 2012-04-05 20:13:17 UTC
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Not really it's just going to make loads of people do faction warfare as the reward for data cores will rise sharply. The winners as all ways will be CCP pets with T2BPO who don't need invention. I imagine pvp allinces in these low sec systems are about to make a shed load of ISK in rent too.



Did you see the staylts posted on how little t2 bpos impacted certain modules? Yes, for say a command ship, the t2bpo is king. For a large t2 gun, the bpo is about 10% of the market. T2 bpos are not the end all, be all, nor do they cover every item. Get over your little t2 bpo ccp pet conspiracy issue.
Stella SGP
#5 - 2012-04-05 20:49:02 UTC
THE SKY IS FALLING AND THE END IS NIGH! NIGH! SAVE YOURSELVES! QUIT EVE BEFORE THE ECONOMY DIES!

Can I have your stuff?
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
#6 - 2012-04-05 22:32:19 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Not really it's just going to make loads of people do faction warfare as the reward for data cores will rise sharply. The winners as all ways will be CCP pets with T2BPO who don't need invention. I imagine pvp allinces in these low sec systems are about to make a shed load of ISK in rent too.



Did you see the staylts posted on how little t2 bpos impacted certain modules? Yes, for say a command ship, the t2bpo is king. For a large t2 gun, the bpo is about 10% of the market. T2 bpos are not the end all, be all, nor do they cover every item. Get over your little t2 bpo ccp pet conspiracy issue.



10% of that T2 gun market is a metric f ton of zero effort isk. 10% of Trillions of ISK is a lot of ISK you know.
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#7 - 2012-04-05 22:44:23 UTC
Weren't they talking about how they planned to get rid of R/D agents eventually anyhow?

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
Duvida
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-04-06 01:02:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Duvida
Jas Dor wrote:
So according to the latest data dump CCP is eliminating research agents and making datacores a faction wars LP item. Put another way they are taking content and moving it to low sec. As we all should now be quite well aware, moving content to low sec in effect removes it from the game for most purposes. There are simply not enough people participating in FW to keep the market supplied with datacores, basically at any LP point cost. Looking at the data from when invention was released, before datacore RP prices dropped, we are looking at prices of several million a core.

How will the constructive removal of invention effect your business? With the addition of faction items to market at the same time as a t2 price spike, will people move from T2 to faction?

Personally, I'm expecting economic collapse. PvPers simply are going to be unwilling to pay 2005 era prices for gear (15m for a T2 invulnerability anyone).



Do you have a link to where this is mentioned? It definitely affects my play as I don't PVP as a choice, but I like to manufacture and use the research agents for datacores and faction standings a bit as well.

Edit: Looks like I see it in other threads now. Hopefully not intended as a disrespect to the many industrialists in EVE, but it does seem to echo the feelings of 'we'll force them to participate in this activity, regarding PVP'. People respond to force, but often not in the way desired. We've already seen too many layoffs at CCP, of people that did not deserve that trial in their lives.
Tobiaz
Spacerats
#9 - 2012-04-06 07:44:59 UTC
I wouldn't mind if CCP removed the word 'invention' because lets face it: you're just applying an already known NPC-invented design onto a T1 blueprint copy. It's more of a licensing thing really.

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-04-06 09:53:43 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
I wouldn't mind if CCP removed the word 'invention' because lets face it: you're just applying an already known NPC-invented design onto a T1 blueprint copy. It's more of a licensing thing really.


Yeah, indeed. Nothing inventive about it.



I will convert my R&D LP into datacores a few days before the update hits.... really sad to see one of my income sources go.



Is it confirmed that they are removing them altogether? Not even a nerf to them? Complete removal?
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#11 - 2012-04-06 12:42:38 UTC
There has been no confirmation of complete removal.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#12 - 2012-04-06 16:00:55 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
So according to the latest data dump CCP is eliminating research agents and making datacores a faction wars LP item. Put another way they are taking content and moving it to low sec. As we all should now be quite well aware, moving content to low sec in effect removes it from the game for most purposes. There are simply not enough people participating in FW to keep the market supplied with datacores, basically at any LP point cost. Looking at the data from when invention was released, before datacore RP prices dropped, we are looking at prices of several million a core.

How will the constructive removal of invention effect your business? With the addition of faction items to market at the same time as a t2 price spike, will people move from T2 to faction?

Personally, I'm expecting economic collapse. PvPers simply are going to be unwilling to pay 2005 era prices for gear (15m for a T2 invulnerability anyone).


I'm afraid unless you can back this claim up with a link to an official CCP Dev Blog then it is just scaremongering/an attempt to raise datacore prices on the market. When you read what you have said it obviously doesn't make any sense for CCP to do this. Factional Warfare does not really 'fit' with industrial activities. I believe this rumour stems from a comment CCP Soundwave made at Fanfest this year but it is not official. CCP Soundwave has 'sounded out' other ideas in the past such as removing ice belts from high sec which was another daft idea.

Please file under rumours/trolls/April fool. Straight
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-04-06 16:04:46 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
So according to the latest data dump CCP is eliminating research agents and making datacores a faction wars LP item. Put another way they are taking content and moving it to low sec. As we all should now be quite well aware, moving content to low sec in effect removes it from the game for most purposes. There are simply not enough people participating in FW to keep the market supplied with datacores, basically at any LP point cost. Looking at the data from when invention was released, before datacore RP prices dropped, we are looking at prices of several million a core.

How will the constructive removal of invention effect your business? With the addition of faction items to market at the same time as a t2 price spike, will people move from T2 to faction?

Personally, I'm expecting economic collapse. PvPers simply are going to be unwilling to pay 2005 era prices for gear (15m for a T2 invulnerability anyone).


Then you'll be quitting, right? Good. Have a great life.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#14 - 2012-04-06 16:10:14 UTC
Raven Ether wrote:
Is it confirmed that they are removing them altogether? Not even a nerf to them? Complete removal?
No, that is not confirmed.

The impression I got from watching the Fanfest vid, was that datacores from R&D agents would no longer be "free". Ie. there would be some kind of ISK charge involved and that's why the Dev said "cash out now".

But hey, he could have meant cash out before the market crashes.
Vince Snetterton
#15 - 2012-04-06 17:09:14 UTC
You people really don't keep up, do you

Watch Soundwave's part one interview with CCP Soundwave.
Key on what he says between 8:00 and 8:40

I think you will get your confirmation right there about the destruction of the existing datacore mechanic

When the lead designer says "ABSOLUTELY cash out your datacores before Inferno", kind of a hint, don't you think

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve-online/interviews/inferno-part-one

But you keep on believing there is no confirmation.
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#16 - 2012-04-07 08:09:51 UTC
Soundwave stated - in the TTH interview - that RP production rates will be nerfed, and a fee will be added when exchanging RPs for datacores. These changes are expected to launch with Inferno, which is why he recommended that everyone with RPs exchange them for the datacores before the Inferno release, so that you can get maximum value on your current RP investment. It certainly will not hurt you to do so, in any case - you don't get anything these days for piling up or saving RPs.

He also stated that the current RP system is not going to go away entirely... not yet. His plan is to phase it out - with the RP nerf, the datacore fee, and sale of datacores in the FW store being the first phase in this process - rather than just kill it all off cold turkey.

These are pretty much the facts thus far, that is, if you consider Soundwave to be a "reliable source." :)

I didn't hear any mention of how long it will take to phase out the RP system entirely. But, I'd hazard a guess that they will wait and see how many FW players actually cash their LPs for datacores. If the datacores are not as popular in the FW stores as desired, then they might have to back pedal on the RP system, in order to keep T2 BPC invention running. As far as I recall, the current number of T2 BPOs simply are not sufficient to produce the quantities of T2 items currently consumed.
Jas Dor
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-04-07 18:59:24 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
Raven Ether wrote:
Is it confirmed that they are removing them altogether? Not even a nerf to them? Complete removal?
No, that is not confirmed.

The impression I got from watching the Fanfest vid, was that datacores from R&D agents would no longer be "free". Ie. there would be some kind of ISK charge involved and that's why the Dev said "cash out now".

But hey, he could have meant cash out before the market crashes.


There is a supposed CCP changelog showing the removal of RPs posted in market discussion. The log comes from the same source that provided a similar log for the now confirmed drone region changes. At present there is has been no devblog on this subject (or really anything since fanfest other than they banned the Mittani and killed a bunch of bots).
Brock Nelson
#18 - 2012-04-07 19:14:29 UTC
Jas Dor wrote:
Pohbis wrote:
Raven Ether wrote:
Is it confirmed that they are removing them altogether? Not even a nerf to them? Complete removal?
No, that is not confirmed.

The impression I got from watching the Fanfest vid, was that datacores from R&D agents would no longer be "free". Ie. there would be some kind of ISK charge involved and that's why the Dev said "cash out now".

But hey, he could have meant cash out before the market crashes.


There is a supposed CCP changelog showing the removal of RPs posted in market discussion. The log comes from the same source that provided a similar log for the now confirmed drone region changes. At present there is has been no devblog on this subject (or really anything since fanfest other than they banned the Mittani and killed a bunch of bots).


Read the change log harder and come back to report on what is actually in it.

I'll give you a hint, it doesn't remove R&D agents or RPs. Only the cost of it.

Signature removed, CCP Phantom