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Now that the botters and RMTers are banned...
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Cinder Rayas
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#161 - 2012-04-06 00:22:43 UTC
Hatch Nasty wrote:
Brutorthegreat wrote:
The 99% are restless again...

And the 1% are indifferent to their whining.

The anti-PLEX, pay-to-win folks in this thread seem to be hung up on this notion of fairness.

Lesson One, kids - learn it young, learn it well: Life. Ain't. Fair.

I'm old and established. I have a RL job that pays me about 2B ISK/hr at current market rates, but also ties up nearly all of my waking hours.

You're 14 and you live in a trailer park with your mom. You can sit around and play EVE 37 hours a week on your five year old Gateway computer, but you don't have two nickels to rub together. You can make 2B a day in pretend space money, but coming up with that monthly $15 is a real PITA because you're too fat to push a lawn mower and if you go outside for more than five minutes on a sunny day you'll explode you pasty vampire ****.

Now under capitalism, we call this a "market". I have money, and you have time to sell. Let's deal.

Oh, but wait. Now it's "not fair." Because I paid some pimply slob to grind my iskies for me. Is it unfair to my neighbors if I pay a guy to mow my lawn, too? Does my neighbor get to go "It's unfair he has that nice lawn, he just pays some guy to cut it. They should ban lawn services and make everyone cut their own grass." No. Pound sand, neighbor. Shoulda put in the OT last month, you lazy bastard but NOOOO you wanted to go visit wine country with your trophy wife and you're ******** kids.

**** fair. **** fair right in the pooper. There's no such thing. Take a lesson kids, if you have money it means you get to buy your way out of the boring **** in life. Apply yourself in school, don't blow your money on stupid ****, don't get yourself in debt, make good choices and start a good career in a growth industry. And someday you too can pay fat poor kids to grind fake space money for you.

Fair can burn in Hell.

I'd like to thank Johnnie Walker for his help in writing this post.


I actually earn more than that, but still believe that RMT and/or P2W is bad and do not partake in it.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#162 - 2012-04-06 00:36:57 UTC
Hatch Nasty wrote:
Brutorthegreat wrote:
The 99% are restless again...

And the 1% are indifferent to their whining.

The anti-PLEX, pay-to-win folks in this thread seem to be hung up on this notion of fairness.

Lesson One, kids - learn it young, learn it well: Life. Ain't. Fair.

I'm old and established. I have a RL job that pays me about 2B ISK/hr at current market rates, but also ties up nearly all of my waking hours.

You're 14 and you live in a trailer park with your mom. You can sit around and play EVE 37 hours a week on your five year old Gateway computer, but you don't have two nickels to rub together. You can make 2B a day in pretend space money, but coming up with that monthly $15 is a real PITA because you're too fat to push a lawn mower and if you go outside for more than five minutes on a sunny day you'll explode you pasty vampire ****.

Now under capitalism, we call this a "market". I have money, and you have time to sell. Let's deal.

Oh, but wait. Now it's "not fair." Because I paid some pimply slob to grind my iskies for me. Is it unfair to my neighbors if I pay a guy to mow my lawn, too? Does my neighbor get to go "It's unfair he has that nice lawn, he just pays some guy to cut it. They should ban lawn services and make everyone cut their own grass." No. Pound sand, neighbor. Shoulda put in the OT last month, you lazy bastard but NOOOO you wanted to go visit wine country with your trophy wife and you're ******** kids.

**** fair. **** fair right in the pooper. There's no such thing. Take a lesson kids, if you have money it means you get to buy your way out of the boring **** in life. Apply yourself in school, don't blow your money on stupid ****, don't get yourself in debt, make good choices and start a good career in a growth industry. And someday you too can pay fat poor kids to grind fake space money for you.

Fair can burn in Hell.

I'd like to thank Johnnie Walker for his help in writing this post.


Bravo sir! Lol

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#163 - 2012-04-06 00:50:25 UTC
I'm a well-paid college graduate IRL (who studied a difficult major at a good school). Your argument "you're poor, I'm rich, neener neener" is wasted on me, and is childish to boot.

Anyone who even has so much as a paper route could buy PLEX. The problem? It's not right.

It's real money for moon money. It is blatant extortion by CCP and it defeats the whole purpose of EVE as a supposed "economy game". You can be uber smart and play the market and make 1 billion isk an hour. Or you can just go to work and make 2 billion isk an hour. So what this means is that it's not even worth your time to play this game, if the goal is to make money.

Likewise, if your goal is to have a high SP pilot, it's not worth it to undock, since your level 5 implants might be blown up.

It's a game that's designed so that NOT playing it gives you a marked advantage, and that's BS, considering that I might want to play once in a while.

At any rate, once you have to look after dependents, you'll realize that you can't just blow $200 a month on moon money because expenses add up and often need to be trimmed wherever possible.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
Hatch Nasty
Tempest Trinity
#164 - 2012-04-06 01:29:30 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
At any rate, once you have to look after dependents, you'll realize that you can't just blow $200 a month on moon money because expenses add up and often need to be trimmed wherever possible.

And there is the root of the argument laid bare.

"I can't afford to buy PLEX, so you shouldn't be allowed to either."

See: Fair
Ai Shun
#165 - 2012-04-06 02:50:07 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
At any rate, once you have to look after dependents, you'll realize that you can't just blow $200 a month on moon money because expenses add up and often need to be trimmed wherever possible.


I have two daughters. And an ex partner I support who lives away from us. And I still manage to buy a few PLEX every once in a while so I can spend my TIME with my family instead of grinding to make ISK. It is more affordable to spend $100 or $200 on PLEX to get ISK than it is to grind L4 missions or whatever to make the ISK. Instead, I can do what I enjoy in the game.

So how about - if you don't like PLEX or can't afford it - don't buy it. Go enjoy yourself. But leave the rest of us out of your style of playing, hmmmkay?
Aranakas
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2012-04-06 03:18:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Aranakas
Hatch Nasty wrote:
Aranakas wrote:
At any rate, once you have to look after dependents, you'll realize that you can't just blow $200 a month on moon money because expenses add up and often need to be trimmed wherever possible.

And there is the root of the argument laid bare.

"I can't afford to buy PLEX, so you shouldn't be allowed to either."

See: Fair



I don't think you grasp the concept that I'm trying to convey. Even if you had a billion dollars, it wouldn't be worth it to trade any amount of money for monopoly money to cheat at monopoly with.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

I can definitely afford to buy PLEX, but I'd rather take my girlfriend out. No matter much money I had, I would never buy PLEX. It is a blatant rip-off and it makes a joke of this "economy"-based game.

Aranakas CEO of Green Anarchy Green vs Green
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#167 - 2012-04-06 03:20:30 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
Hatch Nasty wrote:
Aranakas wrote:
At any rate, once you have to look after dependents, you'll realize that you can't just blow $200 a month on moon money because expenses add up and often need to be trimmed wherever possible.

And there is the root of the argument laid bare.

"I can't afford to buy PLEX, so you shouldn't be allowed to either."

See: Fair



I don't think you grasp the concept that I'm trying to convey. Even if you had a billion dollars, it wouldn't be worth it to trade any amount of money for monopoly money to cheat at monopoly with.

A fool and his money are soon parted.


Even responsible parents have hobbies. See also: bowling league dues and expenses.

It might not be $200 to the dollar, but it's not unreasonable to have a hobby that consumes some of your free time and money, even if you're a parent or guardian.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#168 - 2012-04-06 03:26:16 UTC
That Johnnie Walker dude is a bad,bad man....

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#169 - 2012-04-06 05:38:06 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
Hatch Nasty wrote:
Aranakas wrote:
At any rate, once you have to look after dependents, you'll realize that you can't just blow $200 a month on moon money because expenses add up and often need to be trimmed wherever possible.

And there is the root of the argument laid bare.

"I can't afford to buy PLEX, so you shouldn't be allowed to either."

See: Fair



I don't think you grasp the concept that I'm trying to convey. Even if you had a billion dollars, it wouldn't be worth it to trade any amount of money for monopoly money to cheat at monopoly with.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

I can definitely afford to buy PLEX, but I'd rather take my girlfriend out. No matter much money I had, I would never buy PLEX. It is a blatant rip-off and it makes a joke of this "economy"-based game.


To use your own expression at the beginning of the thread; I worked for my money. With that said I'll spend it however I want whether it be ammo (which would be about 20 .308 rounds), Plex, or blow and hookers.

If you think spending money on the mmo is a total waste, you should cancel your account right now because everything that you are putting into it you will never ever get back for when you do decide to leave. The way I see it, buying 2 months plex is the equivalent of opening a second account for 2 months.

Welcome to the fool's club.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#170 - 2012-04-06 06:54:57 UTC
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
If you think spending money on the mmo is a total waste, you should cancel your account right now because everything that you are putting into it you will never ever get back for when you do decide to leave. The way I see it, buying 2 months plex is the equivalent of opening a second account for 2 months.

Pretty much, you're trading one thing for another. Money (with CCP only of course), time shooting red crosses, time shooting rocks, time abusing your shiny ship in totally balanced highsec incursions, time working the market, time being CEO of an ~elite pvp~ merc corp, etc etc

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Riley Moore
Sentinum Research
#171 - 2012-04-06 08:50:28 UTC
Hatch Nasty wrote:

And the 1% are indifferent to their whining.

The anti-PLEX, pay-to-win folks in this thread seem to be hung up on this notion of fairness.

Lesson One, kids - learn it young, learn it well: Life. Ain't. Fair.

I'm old and established. I have a RL job that pays me about 2B ISK/hr at current market rates, but also ties up nearly all of my waking hours.

You're 14 and you live in a trailer park with your mom. You can sit around and play EVE 37 hours a week on your five year old Gateway computer, but you don't have two nickels to rub together. You can make 2B a day in pretend space money, but coming up with that monthly $15 is a real PITA because you're too fat to push a lawn mower and if you go outside for more than five minutes on a sunny day you'll explode you pasty vampire ****.

Now under capitalism, we call this a "market". I have money, and you have time to sell. Let's deal.

Oh, but wait. Now it's "not fair." Because I paid some pimply slob to grind my iskies for me. Is it unfair to my neighbors if I pay a guy to mow my lawn, too? Does my neighbor get to go "It's unfair he has that nice lawn, he just pays some guy to cut it. They should ban lawn services and make everyone cut their own grass." No. Pound sand, neighbor. Shoulda put in the OT last month, you lazy bastard but NOOOO you wanted to go visit wine country with your trophy wife and you're ******** kids.

**** fair. **** fair right in the pooper. There's no such thing. Take a lesson kids, if you have money it means you get to buy your way out of the boring **** in life. Apply yourself in school, don't blow your money on stupid ****, don't get yourself in debt, make good choices and start a good career in a growth industry. And someday you too can pay fat poor kids to grind fake space money for you.

Fair can burn in Hell.

I'd like to thank Johnnie Walker for his help in writing this post.


Bravo Good sir :) Well said!

Large volumes of highly researched Ammo, drones, charges and ship bpo's. Biggest BPO store in EVE! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=445524#post445524
Ai Shun
#172 - 2012-04-06 09:01:48 UTC
Hatch Nasty wrote:
I'd like to thank Johnnie Walker for his help in writing this post.


*raises glass*

Thank you, Johnnie.
Hroya
#173 - 2012-04-06 09:06:55 UTC
Hatch Nasty wrote:
Brutorthegreat wrote:
The 99% are restless again...

And the 1% are indifferent to their whining.

The anti-PLEX, pay-to-win folks in this thread seem to be hung up on this notion of fairness.

Lesson One, kids - learn it young, learn it well: Life. Ain't. Fair.

I'm old and established. I have a RL job that pays me about 2B ISK/hr at current market rates, but also ties up nearly all of my waking hours.

You're 14 and you live in a trailer park with your mom. You can sit around and play EVE 37 hours a week on your five year old Gateway computer, but you don't have two nickels to rub together. You can make 2B a day in pretend space money, but coming up with that monthly $15 is a real PITA because you're too fat to push a lawn mower and if you go outside for more than five minutes on a sunny day you'll explode you pasty vampire ****.

Now under capitalism, we call this a "market". I have money, and you have time to sell. Let's deal.

Oh, but wait. Now it's "not fair." Because I paid some pimply slob to grind my iskies for me. Is it unfair to my neighbors if I pay a guy to mow my lawn, too? Does my neighbor get to go "It's unfair he has that nice lawn, he just pays some guy to cut it. They should ban lawn services and make everyone cut their own grass." No. Pound sand, neighbor. Shoulda put in the OT last month, you lazy bastard but NOOOO you wanted to go visit wine country with your trophy wife and you're ******** kids.

**** fair. **** fair right in the pooper. There's no such thing. Take a lesson kids, if you have money it means you get to buy your way out of the boring **** in life. Apply yourself in school, don't blow your money on stupid ****, don't get yourself in debt, make good choices and start a good career in a growth industry. And someday you too can pay fat poor kids to grind fake space money for you.

Fair can burn in Hell.

I'd like to thank Johnnie Walker for his help in writing this post.



The pinicle of evolution.
While you make a good post and there is hardly much to argue against it, it is also in a way a sign of faillure.

But rest assured, our lifespans arent long enough to make up our own minds and just make sure we toddle along the design like a lam taken to the slaughter.



You go your corridor but.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#174 - 2012-04-06 09:14:47 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
Ban PLEX. All pay-to-win must go!

just refreshed subscription of my 2 accounts for next 12 months using real money. so what is PLEX again? Cool

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Danfen Fenix
#175 - 2012-04-06 09:17:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Danfen Fenix
I still don't get the whole "plex is PTW" arguement...

Lets look at it like this:

I play this game using PLEX I buy off the market. Its been working out quite well so far. Someone bought that PLEX (gametime), and sold it to me, for my ISK, that I earned with my gametime. They have not bought anything 'extra', they have not bought any win. They have simply gained some of my assets for their assets (my isk for their gametime). In the same way I can gain their ISK, for my loot, or my ships, or my minerals.

Could it be seen as the 'transfer of 'win'' ? Possibly, but that win is already in the game...and trust me, I personally am in no place to actually transfer any 'win' to another player Smile

So in the end, game time has been added to the game. No ISK, or any gameplay mechanics or items have. No 'win' has been added to the game, it has simply...possibly...changed hands, if 'ISK' is how you view 'Win'.

And if anything, ISK has also left the economy in the form of broker payments and so on. You could say the transferral of PLEX itself is a minor ISK sinkP
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#176 - 2012-04-06 10:58:27 UTC
Hatch Nasty wrote:
Brutorthegreat wrote:
The 99% are restless again...

And the 1% are indifferent to their whining.

The anti-PLEX, pay-to-win folks in this thread seem to be hung up on this notion of fairness.

Lesson One, kids - learn it young, learn it well: Life. Ain't. Fair.

I'm old and established. I have a RL job that pays me about 2B ISK/hr at current market rates, but also ties up nearly all of my waking hours.

You're 14 and you live in a trailer park with your mom. You can sit around and play EVE 37 hours a week on your five year old Gateway computer, but you don't have two nickels to rub together. You can make 2B a day in pretend space money, but coming up with that monthly $15 is a real PITA because you're too fat to push a lawn mower and if you go outside for more than five minutes on a sunny day you'll explode you pasty vampire ****.

Now under capitalism, we call this a "market". I have money, and you have time to sell. Let's deal.

Oh, but wait. Now it's "not fair." Because I paid some pimply slob to grind my iskies for me. Is it unfair to my neighbors if I pay a guy to mow my lawn, too? Does my neighbor get to go "It's unfair he has that nice lawn, he just pays some guy to cut it. They should ban lawn services and make everyone cut their own grass." No. Pound sand, neighbor. Shoulda put in the OT last month, you lazy bastard but NOOOO you wanted to go visit wine country with your trophy wife and you're ******** kids.

**** fair. **** fair right in the pooper. There's no such thing. Take a lesson kids, if you have money it means you get to buy your way out of the boring **** in life. Apply yourself in school, don't blow your money on stupid ****, don't get yourself in debt, make good choices and start a good career in a growth industry. And someday you too can pay fat poor kids to grind fake space money for you.

Fair can burn in Hell.

I'd like to thank Johnnie Walker for his help in writing this post.


+1
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#177 - 2012-04-06 11:08:58 UTC
Aranakas wrote:
A fool and his money are soon parted.


Exactly. People who buy ISK using PLEX are fools, no? They are easily parted from their money. In the meantime they provide entertainment to the people who blow them up.

Aranakas wrote:
I can definitely afford to buy PLEX, but I'd rather take my girlfriend out. No matter much money I had, I would never buy PLEX. It is a blatant rip-off and it makes a joke of this "economy"-based game.


Imagine hypothetical person X, who can afford to buy PLEX and can afford to take his girlfriend out. If X grinds for ISK, X has no time to take his girlfriend out. So X buys PLEX to sell for ISK in-game: ISK that someone with more time or ISK-making sense had available to trade for 30 days of game time.

For every person like you who is of the opinion that RMT of any form is evil, there is at least one person who thinks trading real money for ISK is fine, and another who thinks that the challenge of raising the ISK each month to pay for the subscription is enjoyable.

Different strokes to move the world, and all that.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Christine Peeveepeeski
Low Sec Concepts
#178 - 2012-04-06 11:22:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Christine Peeveepeeski
Didn't read whole thread, sorry if the following makes no sense but....

I bought plex with my hard earned money and sold it for plex. What did I win? As far as I can tell all I won was the time it took to grind it up instead :/

Don't get me wrong, I don't always do it.. only when RL has gotten under my feet and my eve time has been reduced. Still unsure what I've won... when do I get it?
Josef Djugashvilis
#179 - 2012-04-06 11:57:24 UTC
supersexysucker wrote:
You are all idiots...

Plex is pay to win cause plex is pay RL money for BETTER things than you can afford.

If I can't afford a carrier ATM... but I buy 2 plex and now I can... I have a MUCH bigger "gun" PAY TO WIN.

Now even bigger if you have the cash... plex to win a super carrier... titan... officer mods... etc etc...

CCP should remove PLEX and selling chars (thats MAJOR pay to win)...

Sorry it is pay to win. I do not care what people call something... words change over time.



+1

This is not a signature.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#180 - 2012-04-06 12:11:28 UTC
supersexysucker wrote:
Plex is pay to win cause plex is pay RL money for BETTER things than you can afford.

If I can't afford a carrier ATM... but I buy 2 plex and now I can... I have a MUCH bigger "gun" PAY TO WIN.
…except that those things are affordable and available even without PLEX. So you're not gaining any specific advantage just because you're paying cash for it.