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Balancing T2 BPO's vs Invention
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Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#1 - 2012-04-05 02:46:16 UTC
There has bee na long drawn out dispute in industry circles over Invention competing against T2 BPO's, im sure you all know the details...

One possible solution that i havent heard proposed is to adjust manufacturing times of T2 BPO's based on what percentage of of the market they are supplying.

So for example, if T2 BPO's are supplying more than 75% of market then increase manufacturing time to limit their ability to supply the market. And to be fair, if T2 BPO's are are supplying less than say 25% of market give them a boost and decrease manufacturing time.

It would be a way to ensure both inventors and T2 BPO holders could compete against each other on Isk Per Hour basis, but of course T2 BPO holder still have higher per unit profit.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-04-05 09:36:57 UTC
I'm pretty sure the general consensus is that though would buff the BPOs across the board. Do you really want that?

(Or do you own one?)
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#3 - 2012-04-05 23:16:44 UTC
Point is to try and balance T2 BPO's vs Invention based on Isk Per Hour, and using manufacturing time to do it. Percentage of market share could be used to judge if things needs a buff or nerf.

Why do you think it would buff BPO's across the board ?

(no i dont own one)
mxzf
Shovel Bros
#4 - 2012-04-05 23:22:48 UTC
How would you tell what items are being produced through BPOs and which ones are invented? Unless you're proposing to add in a completely new item for each T2 item (one that's BPO built, one that's BPC built), which would be stupid.

What's wrong with T2 BPOs ATM? BPOs do have some strengths, namely production costs, but they also have some very large limitations too, especially in terms of production volume and adapting to the market changes. Which means that T2 BPOs end up controlling a couple specific markets (Command Ships come to mind) but being largely inconsequential in most other markets.

It comes down to "if it ain't broke, don't fix it", and T2 BPOs really aren't that broken right now, the safest thing to do is just leave them be.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#5 - 2012-04-05 23:36:25 UTC
Not sure about the specifics, but I like the general idea.

.
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#6 - 2012-04-06 00:20:51 UTC
Not sure about this.
I woudl say just leave it as is ... or dump T2 BPOs all together.

Nothing clever at this time.
Revolution Rising
Last-Light Holdings
#7 - 2012-04-06 00:28:42 UTC
mxzf wrote:
How would you tell what items are being produced through BPOs and which ones are invented? Unless you're proposing to add in a completely new item for each T2 item (one that's BPO built, one that's BPC built), which would be stupid.


CCP has all those stats btw. It was in fanfest, you can look them up right now.

.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2012-04-06 00:49:20 UTC
Ten Bulls wrote:
Point is to try and balance T2 BPO's vs Invention based on Isk Per Hour, and using manufacturing time to do it. Percentage of market share could be used to judge if things needs a buff or nerf.

Why do you think it would buff BPO's across the board ?

(no i dont own one)



Because as far as I'm aware, it's the inventors who set the price of things, especially the popular items.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2012-04-06 00:54:05 UTC
just remove t2 bpos and give players the equivalent to manufacturing them 24/7 for 4 years.

+T2 bpos finally gone
+players who had them have ships and modules worth about how much they would have gotten for selling the bpo.

- market would be screwed up for a while
- invention for those items would be worthless for a while
Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
#10 - 2012-04-06 03:32:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Ten Bulls
CCP have rejected the idea of making T2 BPO's high run BPC's, no reason to think they will change their mind.

At the moment some item prices are dictated by inventors, others by BPO holders, e.g Interceptors are controlled by BPO holders, Assault Frigs by Inventors. Majority of T2 ships cant be invented for a profit. EVE Isk Per Hour is a good tool if your interested in analyzing it.

Stats on invention where posted by CCP_Diagoras to his twitter feed. Some extreme examples, Only 7.07% of Absolutions produced by Invention, 90.23% of Hulks produced by invention.

Controlling production from T2 BPO's could be done modifying the Base production time (before research) of T2 BPO's and leaving T1/Invented BPC's alone.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#11 - 2012-04-06 03:39:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Ten Bulls wrote:
There has bee na long drawn out dispute in industry circles over Invention competing against T2 BPO's, im sure you all know the details...

One possible solution that i havent heard proposed is to adjust manufacturing times of T2 BPO's based on what percentage of of the market they are supplying.

So for example, if T2 BPO's are supplying more than 75% of market then increase manufacturing time to limit their ability to supply the market. And to be fair, if T2 BPO's are are supplying less than say 25% of market give them a boost and decrease manufacturing time.

It would be a way to ensure both inventors and T2 BPO holders could compete against each other on Isk Per Hour basis, but of course T2 BPO holder still have higher per unit profit.


Terrible idea! Your math creates a recursive error.

You can't modulate something based on its production impact in a way which will impact its production impact without creating said recursion.

Instead, come up with a way which over vast expenditure of time and resources will eventually "invent" a TII BPO while also consuming (perhaps) a plethora of fully-researched TI BPO's and high-meta modules.

This will have the obvious effect of countering dreaded inflation.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom