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New dev blog: Team Security - Now with 100% more Anti-RMT

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Author
Padme Amidala Naberrie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#501 - 2012-04-05 14:31:11 UTC
Vulcan23 wrote:
A mere combination of words does not a meaningful answer make. Especially when those words are presented in a context that suggests that the problems at issue were not properly understood in the first place, rendering empty answers even emptier. It also doesn't help that the 'answer' is surrounded by contradictory statements that at one moment state that there is literally nothing to worry about and then at the next moment state that the needs of a 'niche' playstyle (a niche playstyle! in MY sandbox?) will not affect the way he proceeds. So, it is really not surprising that people continue to ask for clarification in response to such a complex of empty phrases, contradictory statements, and expressions of a lack of concern for the issues at hand (which in any case seem not to have been properly understood).


No, Sreegs clearly stated that each case would be dealt with on an "if it happens, we'll look into it" basis before stating that it hasn't yet as far as he could tell.

But people like you just won't let it go because you want guarantees about your game style being "protected".

Give it a rest will you. The rate you're headed I wouldn't be surprised if war decs started coming your way some time soon. Roll

PAN
Par'Gellen
#502 - 2012-04-05 14:36:30 UTC
Vulcan23 wrote:
A mere combination of words does not a meaningful answer make. Especially when those words are presented in a context that suggests that the problems at issue were not properly understood in the first place, rendering empty answers even emptier. It also doesn't help that the 'answer' is surrounded by contradictory statements that at one moment state that there is literally nothing to worry about and then at the next moment state that the needs of a 'niche' playstyle (a niche playstyle! in MY sandbox?) will not affect the way he proceeds. So, it is really not surprising that people continue to ask for clarification in response to such a complex of empty phrases, contradictory statements, and expressions of a lack of concern for the issues at hand (which in any case seem not to have been properly understood).

^ This!

I've read the entire thread and see nothing at all in any of Sreegs' answers that reassures me I won't get flagged for buying/selling something on the market from/to an RMT. One moment he is telling us it never happens then almost in the same breath telling us that when it happens (wait... what?) that the solution is to go sit in a petition queue for weeks. That is not an acceptable answer.

Also I'd like to point out that being a member of your company's customer service department has nothing at all to do with the basic level of courtesy and professionalism you should show while representing that company. Especially to customers.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...

Sri Bolyn
Disciples of the Void
#503 - 2012-04-05 14:40:04 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
DeODokktor wrote:
[quote=saiy'an]

STUFF!!!!!

I dont think i'll ask this dev any more questions, as he asked me to stop spreading lies. Asking a question is not a lie, but he's a dev and I guess he doesnt understand the difference.


If I asked you nicely once to stop lying and you didn't listen what am I to do?

Here's the difference. I have a question what is a butt? That's a question... I have a question 2000 pages of text ending in "so the market blah blah blah" is not a question. In short get out.


Dear CCP Sreegs,

I think you are at your sexiest when you get a strident with the trolls. Never stop roasting!

Sincerely,
Sri

p.s. I'm a man posting behind a female avatar. This might be a problem. Don't hate me, I just can't help myself...P
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#504 - 2012-04-05 14:43:15 UTC
Neo Agricola wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

Additionally, I'd like to point out that while the bot might not disappear over night after being reported, it is really important that you guys keep reporting bots. I won't go into details why, but rest assured that it's something that you can do to help in the war on bots.


Ok, lets put it in other words:

Let us assume I find a bot (a real one) and I report it. That will lead to: that Bot will go, soon (TM).
(whatever soon means)?


As someone who doesn't represent CCP in any way I can say what they can't:

Even if you are 100% sure you have flagged a real bot, you could still be wrong.

If it's just some guy with a clever multi-boxing setup (as I have seen done with effectively sticks and string before), it might look to you like a botting operation and be perfectly within the rules despite that.


You are 100% right, and that is the reason behind that
Quote:
(a real one)
. And I hoped everyone would understand that i mean:
"That char is really a bot" and not "I belive it is a bot".
Just for clarification...

Let's just say that all of the choice criteria I've seen for identifying a 'bot operation in-game are more likely to flag a perfectly legitimate multi-boxing operation.

Unless you are talking about a case where you were IRL shoulder surfing a fellow player, saw them botting that way, and reported them for it *you were probably wrong*.

And even if you were right, there are reasons (like an ongoing investigation to track down the members of an RMT operation) where a banning for a legitimately identified bot might be delayed for weeks.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Vulcan23
New Eden Advanced Experiments
#505 - 2012-04-05 15:10:46 UTC
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:


No, Sreegs clearly stated that each case would be dealt with on an "if it happens, we'll look into it" basis before stating that it hasn't yet as far as he could tell.

Which in no way answers the concerns that have been raised. That is a completely empty response with zero information content that offers no useful response to those who asked questions.

Quote:

But people like you just won't let it go because you want guarantees about your game style being "protected".

Negative info would be just as useful.

Quote:

Give it a rest will you. The rate you're headed I wouldn't be surprised if war decs started coming your way some time soon. Roll

PAN


Nothing would make me happier than fighting off wardecs from CCP fanboys defending the honour of a former goon developer who trolls customers with legitimate questions. The multi-layered ironies would be priceless.
Padme Amidala Naberrie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2012-04-05 15:31:18 UTC
Vulcan23 wrote:
Which in no way answers the concerns that have been raised. That is a completely empty response with zero information content that offers no useful response to those who asked questions.


Yes it does, you just can't accept the answer. That's your problem not the rest of the communities and we are, quiet frankly, getting sick of your whining.

Vulcan23 wrote:
Negative info would be just as useful.


You've had the info you asked for, you're just too immature to accept the answer because it's not the answer you want. Roll

Vulcan23 wrote:
Nothing would make me happier than fighting off wardecs from CCP fanboys defending the honour of a former goon developer who trolls customers with legitimate questions. The multi-layered ironies would be priceless.


And there, in a nutshell, is all we need to know about you. Dismissing me as a "fanboy" while making snide remarks about Sreeg being a former Goon with the clear intention of dissing him and of being unimpartial without having the balls to come out and say it. Why else bring up Sreeg's being a former Goon?

And I am no fanboy. I despise the Goons - check my thread calling for their disbanding - and have criticised CCP when I felt they deserved it but am getting, quite frankly, sick of your incessant whining and refusal to accept the answer given to you while claiming you have had "no answer" because you haven't got the answer you want.

PAN
Par'Gellen
#507 - 2012-04-05 15:50:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:
Yes it does, you just can't accept the answer.
You are correct in a way because the answers Sreegs has given us are contradictory and sensless. Most people question such things. In several of his responses he may as well have said "Bing tiddle tiddle bong... Go away."

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...

Padme Amidala Naberrie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#508 - 2012-04-05 15:58:25 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:
Yes it does, you just can't accept the answer.
You are correct in a way because the answers Sreegs has given us are contradictory and sensless. Most people question such things. In several of his responses he may as well have said "Bing tiddle tiddle bong... Go away."


Only because people like you refused to accept his answer of "we will deal with it when it happens if it happens" no matter how many times he said it.

Roll

PAN
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#509 - 2012-04-05 16:02:29 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:
Yes it does, you just can't accept the answer.
You are correct in a way because the answers Sreegs has given us are contradictory and sensless. Most people question such things. In several of his responses he may as well have said "Bing tiddle tiddle bong... Go away."

People who will break the rules of a game will look for any edge of an exception they can use to justify their actions.

While you are probably not one of those people, the answer that would satisfy your curiosity would provide many of them with that sliver of an exception they could use to (at minimum) consume excess CCP customer support resources while trying to get away with it.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Vulcan23
New Eden Advanced Experiments
#510 - 2012-04-05 16:07:40 UTC
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:


And there, in a nutshell, is all we need to know about you. Dismissing me as a "fanboy" while making snide remarks about Sreeg being a former Goon with the clear intention of dissing him and of being unimpartial without having the balls to come out and say it. Why else bring up Sreeg's being a former Goon?

And I am no fanboy. I despise the Goons - check my thread calling for their disbanding - and have criticised CCP when I felt they deserved it but am getting, quite frankly, sick of your incessant whining and refusal to accept the answer given to you while claiming you have had "no answer" because you haven't got the answer you want.

PAN


If you think answers have been given as opposed to empty responses then you clearly don't understand the issues at hand and should stop 'contributing'.

Why bring up Sreegs being a goon? a) Because he is posting like a goon rather than like the representative of a company that takes the money of the people he is responding to in exchange for services. b) Because you are threatening wardecs in response to forum posting that is critical of him and that is deeply, deeply, deeply funny given his background.
Par'Gellen
#511 - 2012-04-05 16:17:04 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:
Yes it does, you just can't accept the answer.
You are correct in a way because the answers Sreegs has given us are contradictory and sensless. Most people question such things. In several of his responses he may as well have said "Bing tiddle tiddle bong... Go away."

People who will break the rules of a game will look for any edge of an exception they can use to justify their actions.

While you are probably not one of those people, the answer that would satisfy your curiosity would provide many of them with that sliver of an exception they could use to (at minimum) consume excess CCP customer support resources while trying to get away with it.

I understand that completely and that is actually a much better answer and makes me feel a lot better about the whole issue than anything Sreegs has said. Maybe he just got my hairs up due to his mouthfull-of-broken-glass style of customer interaction.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...

Padme Amidala Naberrie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#512 - 2012-04-05 16:21:16 UTC
Vulcan23 wrote:
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:


And there, in a nutshell, is all we need to know about you. Dismissing me as a "fanboy" while making snide remarks about Sreeg being a former Goon with the clear intention of dissing him and of being unimpartial without having the balls to come out and say it. Why else bring up Sreeg's being a former Goon?

And I am no fanboy. I despise the Goons - check my thread calling for their disbanding - and have criticised CCP when I felt they deserved it but am getting, quite frankly, sick of your incessant whining and refusal to accept the answer given to you while claiming you have had "no answer" because you haven't got the answer you want.

PAN


If you think answers have been given as opposed to empty responses then you clearly don't understand the issues at hand and should stop 'contributing'.

Why bring up Sreegs being a goon? a) Because he is posting like a goon rather than like the representative of a company that takes the money of the people he is responding to in exchange for services. b) Because you are threatening wardecs in response to forum posting that is critical of him and that is deeply, deeply, deeply funny given his background.


Sreegs was polite enough until people like you started going on and on and on and on and I am not threatening war decs because you are critical of him, just because I am sick of your whining.

PAN
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#513 - 2012-04-05 16:51:13 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:
Yes it does, you just can't accept the answer.
You are correct in a way because the answers Sreegs has given us are contradictory and sensless. Most people question such things. In several of his responses he may as well have said "Bing tiddle tiddle bong... Go away."

People who will break the rules of a game will look for any edge of an exception they can use to justify their actions.

While you are probably not one of those people, the answer that would satisfy your curiosity would provide many of them with that sliver of an exception they could use to (at minimum) consume excess CCP customer support resources while trying to get away with it.

I understand that completely and that is actually a much better answer and makes me feel a lot better about the whole issue than anything Sreegs has said. Maybe he just got my hairs up due to his mouthfull-of-broken-glass style of customer interaction.

He attempted to communicate that early on, but he speaks "analyst" so it seems it wasn't as clear as it should have been.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs

Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#514 - 2012-04-05 17:47:06 UTC
Grikath wrote:
Sreegs has already stated that people who insist that they are "false positives" and get banned should use the normal petition route.


While obviously I can not post them here, I have seen what this route looks like and it is not pretty.... there is not much you can do against 'we have proof' over and over. But I am willing to believe that the system has been improved since then.
Rivur'Tam
the united
#515 - 2012-04-05 20:08:48 UTC
Florestan Bronstein wrote:
Rivur'Tam wrote:
Thing is that you can buy a billion isk for $35 from ccp.

I heard in a eve song that a billion isk from www.buyisk.com was $56.98

So why anybody would rmt isk when ccp sells it for a lot less is beyond me,

your price information is either plain incorrect or horribly outdated (I heard that 1bn ISK sells for 250$ - back in 2007).

as long as you don't consider the risk of getting caught, RMT ISK is of course substantially cheaper than what you would pay to get the same amount through GTCs.

keeping track of RMT prices over time (and then comparing the data to PLEX prices and banwaves) might be an interesting little project.



i head that in a song by curzon but after u said that i googled it and it seems a bil isk is 20$ from the farmers

so its ccp $35
chinky farmer $20

so it s a bit cheaper but considering risk in (i don't know what the chances are of getting caught )

i still think ccp is ypur best bet and plex prices rise all the time and ccp buy them from you instantly so i say is still stuiped unless the chances getting caught are 100 to 1

[b]Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire

^^ my sig was awesome that naugty spitfire stole it for himself true story

United Recruitment Director.[/b]

Grikath
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#516 - 2012-04-05 21:42:26 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:
Yes it does, you just can't accept the answer.
You are correct in a way because the answers Sreegs has given us are contradictory and sensless. Most people question such things. In several of his responses he may as well have said "Bing tiddle tiddle bong... Go away."

People who will break the rules of a game will look for any edge of an exception they can use to justify their actions.

While you are probably not one of those people, the answer that would satisfy your curiosity would provide many of them with that sliver of an exception they could use to (at minimum) consume excess CCP customer support resources while trying to get away with it.

I understand that completely and that is actually a much better answer and makes me feel a lot better about the whole issue than anything Sreegs has said. Maybe he just got my hairs up due to his mouthfull-of-broken-glass style of customer interaction.


Really Par'..... What surprises me is that you didn't get that one from the start..

Sreegs is a security analyst, not a customer support officer.
His primary job is to Keep Things Safe, not play nice with forum pedants.
One very important part of his job is not to give anything away about the way he Does Things when he has to interact with players, like in this thread. Which makes for..unsatisfactory answers.., especially for those who try to get details or answers to speculation.

As far as "flagging" is concerned, If you regularly deal with large amounts of ISK, either directly or as proxy, any form of analysis will flag you initially. Not necessarily because you have had interaction with RMT, but simply because your toon(s) come into contact with large amounts of ISK, which is what RMT is about to be "successful" in any way.
Sreegs has obviously found a decent way to Do His VooDoo on that little dataset, and also obviously Other Info to get a picture of Whodunnit to have done a royal swing with the Banhammer with very little collateral damage as far as I can tell.
(There's simply not enough screaming and moaning)

Assuming the positive side of Murphy's Law here: Yes, you probably have been flagged, as was Chribba and all the others who deal in large amounts of ISK. You obviously also are still here, are not screaming about Unfair Ban, and are able to fluff this thread, even after that Royal Swing, so you're "safe" , for a given value of [Safe].

Highsec isn't "Safe".  Neither is it a playground for bullies and bottomfeeders. So stop complaining and start playing the game already.

Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#517 - 2012-04-05 22:02:38 UTC
Sreegs can't come to the furums right now but sent me an sms stating that he will give all you whiners immunity flags so you can continue your special snowflake activity with confidence. Now stfu already. That part is also part of his message.
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#518 - 2012-04-05 22:43:12 UTC
Go Sreegs Go!!

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie

Maul555
Xen Investments
#519 - 2012-04-06 03:47:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Maul555
I would just like to put in my appreciation to the guys working on destroying the botters of New Eden. I cannot wait for all sorts of awesome graphs and numbers detailing the awesome destruction you are bringing upon the greater botter community. Twisted

Keep up the good work guys!!!
zcar300
SERCO Group
#520 - 2012-04-06 04:41:01 UTC
You should totally make a special police force in EVE to represent these actions. It would be GMs roll playing a special concord task force designed to bring the characters of the cheaters to justice. They would be flying special fancy ships like the yacht. They would be kind of like the tv shows were the police all wear expensive suits and drive exotic cars.

So if you caught a cheater with a ton of plex you could have a couple of these celebrity police show up were that character last docked and then undock with the plex and the character in their cargo. And take them back to concord headquarters. They could stop outside the station and give a "press conference" with Eve News or New Eden Radio. lol