Intergalactic Summit

Are we really doing this again? Are we really trying to equate the criminal prisoner with the slave? Is that an argument to continue slavery? Criminals go to prison in a just society. Would you have it otherwise? Please leave that argument in the grave where it belongs. Every free society has a criminal justice system whereby those who violate the inalienable rights of others are penalized and reformed.

You lost me at 'abomination to God'.

I'm fully aware that the initial reasoning, and for many, continued justification for slavery was for religious purposes, but to my cynical eye, it holds progressively less water - particularly here in the Kingdom, where it doesn't take much digging beneath the surface to find a culture somewhat more secular than it might at first appear.

But if you're going to start bringing up religious justification for emancipation, then we might as well stop right here, because it'll turn into a 'my beliefs are better than yours' argument, and if you recall, that led (among other things) to the annexation of Matari space.

Manwe, I'm not unsympathetic to your cause, but please, find some other justification. And while you're at it, explain to me how destroying Amarrian and Khanid society at its very foundations will be good for anyone - including the slaves. The whole reason I don't believe in mass, immediate emancipation is that I firmly believe that it'll do more harm than good. And no, I don't mean to their souls or any of that crap. No religious conversion attempted by force is worth a damn.

Your criticism is appreciated and presses an important issue. I believe Secular humanism and Religious humanism lead us to the same end point; the dignifying of all human persons. I will leave my own religious justifications at the door from now on and focus on the common humanistic end of freedom for all.

Restitution is a long, long, long process whereby the offending party commits all the time, resources and energy to right the wrong they have committed. The expense of restitution is in proportion to the wrong committed. Slave holding nations have enslaved billions over centuries. Restitution must involve a massive amount of time and expense to right this wrong.

Step One: The Empress et.al. need to declare slavery to be wrong (This will necessarily involve theological reformation)
Step Two: Immediate emancipation of all slaves (This is a declarative act followed by enforcement)
Step Three: Matriculation of those emancipated (This step will take decades to accomplish and will involve the commitment of massive resources, cooperation between the Republic, Empire, State, Kingdom, Federation. Matriculation is the process whereby those freed are brought into society in such a way that they are able to function as self-determined individuals and communities. The injustice of slavery is enormous; restitution must be equally enormous. And yes, the society and culture built on slavery must become a society and culture fundamentally reformed, and the end of this will be good for all. It must cease to be the culture it once was. A universal humanistic end must be embraced via religious humanism and/or secular humanism. Every slave holder must be required to spend the resources and time to see that those they once enslaved are enable to live free. The infrastructures of the combined nations of this cluster are far sufficient to accomplish this task if turned from greed and toward justice.

Is this an unattainable idealism? No. But, it is not easily attainable. Now the beginning has to be the speaking of three simple and direct words. SLAVERY IS WRONG!

I don't see why everyone gets so up in arms about Amarrian slaves. A number of respectable nations were conquered as part of the reclaiming by the Empire, who quickly accepted Amarrian culture and were thus able to obtain Amarr citizenship. Those who continually are forced into slavery are doing so by choice. Simply submit to our ways and you too can achieve your freedom.

And yet, you continue to confuse everything as the ignorant you are. This has never been about an argument to continue slavery, this is about you mixing together people enslaved or put in prison with the other slaves.

What is the difference between an enslaved criminal and a prisonner ? The former surely works for the society, while it is not always the case for the latter that often rots in his own cell, and costs as much as money as the former.

But I assumed that you conveniently forgot about that part when your disciples started to free every slave they met ? Or did they turned a blind eye on all the possible criminals that they actually released free in the wilderness ? What kind of humanitarian work do you do again ?

I find it very sad that so many people of the tribes, once they become capsuleers, feel so threatened when confronted by the truth of slavery. How do they manifest that fear? Usually name-calling. Worse, many capsuleers have grown so fat off of the status quo of continued war and continued slavery, that to give anything other than lip service to abolition is too great a threat

I have watched the discussion on this forum and on the com channels. Pilots seldom are willing to risk significant disagreement with their cherished social circles. Instead, the discussion goes on and on in the same circles and little is done other than a lot of hand wringing. Objection after objection is made as to the impracticality of pressing for abolition. "Oh, we can't free the slaves, some of them might be criminals." On it goes. Those who dare make the status-quo uncomfortable by regularly reminding the community of the evil of slavery are attacked and vilified. Where is the Vherokior, Brutor, Sebiestor, etc capsuleer pilot? If you are not offending someone by your anti-slavery efforts, your efforts are likely too small. Get off your dainty, ecto-plasm soaked butt and do something.

As for Ms. Farel's accusations; they are made in ignorance and fear. Ms. Farel is too afraid to lose her club status with those on both sides of the fence to take any kind of real stand. So what is left for her other than to vilify those who are actually doing something and not just talking. Is your social circle more important that your tribe brothers and sisters still in slavery, Ms. Farel of the Brutor tribe?

As for freeing criminals, you speak out of turn. The Disciples know the difference between the slave and the slaver and the militant and the soldier. Your criticism is false.

Petty slander. This was not about name-calling, or if you really want to consider it name-calling, so be it. But it remains a fact before all : you are an ignorant, Mr Ston.

And one things is worse than ignorance : to content oneself in ignorance.



Caricatures and hyperboles will not make your point any more valid.



Irrelevant. You may know the difference between a slave and a slaver, but you obviously do not seem to know the differences between your slaves.



Fear ? You speak again out of ignorance. You can ask PIE Inc and Ms Vitalia about my beliefs on the concept of God and how it turned out when I was still in the Amarr Militia. You can ask Ms Surionen that I consider part of my small social circle how I sometimes tell her how I disagree on a few things. Actually, you can ask that to almost anyone I know. I speak my mind when I have to.

You can also dig up in my old records and see that I freed exactly 713 slaves owned by my own House when I took up the sucession - Ms Sakura Imoru can testify for that. And it may not be to the scale of what your organisation deal with daily, but at least I triaged them before and made sure that all the ones enslaved for criminal acts in the Empire were kept enslaved and transfered elsewhere. Slavery abolition may not be my primary and daily occupation, but at least I know what I am dealing with.

Science. I also repel pirate threats and Sansha incursions, that are one of the source of the homeless and people you rescue as you may know. I look at the bigger picture. And, of course, to everyone their own field of expertise, where they are the most needed.

Also, thank you for having ignored all my points.

Start making points instead of excuses and you won't be ignored.

Minmatar below the age of 30 shouldn't have freedom, as they are a brutish and warmongering people and must be taught proper ideals before they are allowed to become a full citizen within society.