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Wow CCP, you are really rolling the dice on the economy
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Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#61 - 2012-04-05 14:59:00 UTC
Skex Relbore wrote:
wever if they reduce the influx of isk sufficiently we won't see much change in prices

What will happen regardless is a reduction in real economic activity. Reduced supply or minerals will naturally result in a decreased supply of finished goods.

I think it's an open question on whether or not human miners are really capable of supplying the market for minerals. and yeah I know we'll eventually reach a new equilibrium but that equilibrium is likely to at a much smaller volume than currently

Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE.


Really, do you think there aren't enough minerals? Ofc there are, you just need to increase their prices. The market will balance itself, just that we may see some inflation meanwhile.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#62 - 2012-04-05 14:59:38 UTC
bldyannoyed wrote:

Oh yeah, and due to the awesomeness of suicide gankers it's probably also the highest risk profession in high sec, by which I mean the only PvE activity in high sec that actually has any (hows that for ironic).

Eh. What risk? In real terms, if my mining alt gets ganked once a day, every day,* I still come out ahead. Even if I got ganked twice a day, every day, though the margin becomes very thin at that point. Why? 'Cause I fly cheap-ass Retrievers, mine core minerals, and count the cost of lost hulls into the equation.

Those "awesome" gankers lose cash every time they pop one of my hulls, even if 100% of everything I have drops. In a couple hours - three, tops - I've replaced the cost of everything they've destroyed, and more beyond. How? Bare minimum investment to be profitable, and spend not one single ISK more than needed to meet that metric. Not for me the bottin' of ice, or fancy tanked-out mining fleets - Nope. Just a grubby little tin can melting rocks.

So - No risk. Just costs of doin' business. And those awesome gankers are reduced to nothing more than line-items on a spreadsheet.



* Actual gank frequency is like once every three weeks. I'm coming out waaaaay ahead.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#63 - 2012-04-05 15:00:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Henry Haphorn
Darth Tickles wrote:
Skex Relbore wrote:
Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE.


Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is.




EDIT: nevermind, I stand corrected.

Adapt or Die
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#64 - 2012-04-05 15:01:25 UTC
bldyannoyed wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
Skex Relbore wrote:
Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE.


Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is.


Recession: A period of temporary economic decline during which trade and industrial activity are reduced

Sounds spot on to me


Damn it, someone already beat me to it.

Adapt or Die
Qvar Dar'Zanar
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-04-05 15:02:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Qvar Dar'Zanar
Henry Haphorn wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
Skex Relbore wrote:
Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE.


Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is.


@Darth Tickles - Recession is when the value of things go down. Growth is when the value of things go up.


LOL no. That's called deflation and inflation.

And do you really think people will stop producing things, mining, trading...? HA.
Henry Haphorn
Killer Yankee
#66 - 2012-04-05 15:05:01 UTC
Qvar Dar'Zanar wrote:
Henry Haphorn wrote:
Darth Tickles wrote:
Skex Relbore wrote:
Honestly I think we're about to see a recession in EVE.


Obviously you don't even understand what a "recession" is.


@Darth Tickles - Recession is when the value of things go down. Growth is when the value of things go up.


LOL no. That's called deflation and inflation.

And do you really think people will stop producing things, mining, trading...? HA.


Thank you for the correction.

Also, where did I say that people will stop producing?

Adapt or Die
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#67 - 2012-04-05 15:42:26 UTC
Point to where the "downturn in economic activity" is going to occur.

Trying to apply complex real world economic terms to eve phenomenon often leads to oversimplifications like this. Eve does have an economy, but there are fundamental differences that require you to think a little deeper before you make one to one comparisons with the real world.

I will without hesitation agree that there will be a downturn in "GDP", but a "recession" implies far more than that, far more which will likely not occur. Furthermore, given the negative connotations of the term "recession" and the negative connotations of the original argument in this thread, the misuse of the term "recession" is significant. Much of the undesirable aspects of a real recession will not be occurring, while much if not all of the actual impact of a lower overall galactic output will be offset by the fact that it will be being produced by actual players having fun and not bots (how exactly you value the increased playability of mining against an overall decline in the supply of goods being a personal evaluation, not a collective one).
gfldex
#68 - 2012-04-05 15:58:08 UTC
As of today the sky is officially falling. There is no Drake in Jita on sell orders below 50M ISK.

Luckily it's all just speculation, right? :->

If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
Zircon Dasher
#69 - 2012-04-05 16:07:36 UTC
Mineral prices going up....... check
Scalability of mining unchanged........check
Perception of decreased ISK injection potential....... check

I hope Sreegs can keep up.

Nerfing High-sec is never the answer. It is the question. The answer is 'YES'.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#70 - 2012-04-05 16:21:55 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Mineral prices going up....... check
Scalability of mining unchanged........check
Perception of decreased ISK injection potential....... check

I hope Sreegs can keep up.

Target-rich environment, my friend. Target-rich environment.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#71 - 2012-04-05 16:23:04 UTC
Zircon Dasher wrote:
Mineral prices going up....... check
Scalability of mining unchanged........check
Perception of decreased ISK injection potential....... check

I hope Sreegs can keep up.


If he cant then BATs will do our best to kill as many macro miners as possible.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#72 - 2012-04-05 16:25:52 UTC
Marduk Nibiru wrote:
Simi Kusoni wrote:
Personally I like the fact that they're shaking things up a little.


It's fun to throw M-80's at bees' nests.

Anyone that says otherwise...simple never has.



I'm sorry, but I have to flag you.

I own all rights to any references to Bee's on this forum, so desist bombing my Bee's in your sentences. Cool


Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#73 - 2012-04-05 16:32:32 UTC
Black Dranzer wrote:
Vince Snetterton wrote:
and now I read about the elimination of meta 0 items from loot drops.


Woah, woah. They're actually doing this?

I heard about it a while back, but it never actually got implemented. Is it actually coming with inferno?

If so, that's AWESOME.


It is kinda silly. Once my corp was doing a mining OP. I hate mining so missioned instead and salvaged all my missions/reprocessed the loot. I gave the minerals to the corp.

I 'mined' more isk in minerals than the the typical miner did from that op.
Selinate
#74 - 2012-04-05 16:33:58 UTC
I had to laugh a bit at the fact that OP received one like for whining about the economy changing. First reply got 24 likes.

Funny.
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#75 - 2012-04-05 16:36:36 UTC
These changes will be good for the game... and we could definitely stand for a shake-up of the game.

Instead of going on a long rant about the economy, I'll just say this: RL comparisons don't hold up. Unemployment in EvE is 0%, nobody is retired & there are no pensions to pay, healthcare is cheap (as cheap as your clone), and you can't invest in options contracts. ...oh. and murder is legal.


Signatures should be used responsibly...
SilverTrav
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#76 - 2012-04-05 16:40:36 UTC
Selinate wrote:
I had to laugh a bit at the fact that OP received one like for whining about the economy changing. First reply got 24 likes.

Funny.


You know 'Likes' are cumulative from all posts right? Not just the post you are looking at.

I don't care if I fall, so long as someone picks up my guns and keeps shooting.
Bischopt
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2012-04-05 16:45:21 UTC
I thought the economy was already messed up because incursions are bringing in too much isk and causing a horrible inflation.

Doesn't matter if it gets a little more broken.
ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#78 - 2012-04-05 16:59:21 UTC
Bischopt wrote:
I thought the economy was already messed up because incursions are bringing in too much isk and causing a horrible inflation.

Doesn't matter if it gets a little more broken.


Mission running is injecting WAY more ISK into the economy than incursions are... i know cause the fancy graphs say so.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#79 - 2012-04-05 16:59:50 UTC
SilverTrav wrote:
Selinate wrote:
I had to laugh a bit at the fact that OP received one like for whining about the economy changing. First reply got 24 likes.

Funny.


You know 'Likes' are cumulative from all posts right? Not just the post you are looking at.

You know that each post has a counter on it, indicating teh number of 'likes' it directly recieves, right?

+28 as of this post.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
mickydees
PaP KG
#80 - 2012-04-05 17:35:09 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
bldyannoyed wrote:

Oh yeah, and due to the awesomeness of suicide gankers it's probably also the highest risk profession in high sec, by which I mean the only PvE activity in high sec that actually has any (hows that for ironic).

Eh. What risk? In real terms, if my mining alt gets ganked once a day, every day,* I still come out ahead. Even if I got ganked twice a day, every day, though the margin becomes very thin at that point. Why? 'Cause I fly cheap-ass Retrievers, mine core minerals, and count the cost of lost hulls into the equation.

Those "awesome" gankers lose cash every time they pop one of my hulls, even if 100% of everything I have drops. In a couple hours - three, tops - I've replaced the cost of everything they've destroyed, and more beyond. How? Bare minimum investment to be profitable, and spend not one single ISK more than needed to meet that metric. Not for me the bottin' of ice, or fancy tanked-out mining fleets - Nope. Just a grubby little tin can melting rocks.

So - No risk. Just costs of doin' business. And those awesome gankers are reduced to nothing more than line-items on a spreadsheet.



* Actual gank frequency is like once every three weeks. I'm coming out waaaaay ahead.


wow you must be a poor nobody.