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Protecting Mining Ships from Suicide Ganking - Orca fits
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Natasha Preston
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-04-04 03:22:39 UTC
I know mining ships are really easy prey for suicide ganking, but even then I usually try to fit the best tank possible on my hulks and mackinaws (well... not really the best tank as faction mods make you a tasty target for gankers in the first place, but anyway....).

I usually find plenty of information about fitting these ships, but what about the supporting Orca? Are there any good fits to help the poor exumers to survive the ganks? I thought about fitting a Siege Warfare Link - Shield Efficiency, or fitting for cap and run a Large Shield Transporter II (with 100% uptime).

Supposing I have just one Hulk or Mackinaw, would you think the LST would be better than the Link? Any other suggestions for the Orca's Fitting?

Thanks for the suggestions.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#2 - 2012-04-04 04:28:35 UTC
Shield Harm link is your better choice. But it only adds about 8% or so EHP to the Hulks because the Orca doesn't give Siege Warfare bonuses, and the orca pilot probably has the Mining implant and not the Siege Warfare implant.

You could try running medium shield maintenance repair bots, but that only helps against destroyer ganks (in which case EC-300 or EC-600 drones might be better).

For the serious folks, you run an off-grid Vulture command ship with the T2 gang links that boost shield resists along with a pilot who has the right mind link. Then make sure to tank the hulks with the DC2/MSE2 fit (about 29-30k EHP). Once you add in siege warfare bonuses (+10%) and the Vulture, the EHP gets pretty nice.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#3 - 2012-04-04 04:41:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
It depends on your use of the Orca, and your paranoia level.

My paranoia level is fairly high, having had my Orca go into structure, and survive.

If you have another hauler, then you really don't need the Orca to do anything other than boost and be a temporary ore dump until the hauler returns. I rarely ever fill my corporate hangar let alone my cargohold, and my ore hold still has most of that new ship smell.

If you can get an alt or buddy who is a Siege Warfare booster to park in the system, then definitely go with that. The Orca and mining ships are shield tanked. In that case, an Armor Warfare - Passive Defense II.

If you need more cargo, change the rigs. The DCU II is where most of the Orca's durability comes from though, as the ship is mostly structure.

[Orca, Durable]
Reinforced Bulkheads II
Damage Control II

Large Shield Extender II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II

Mining Foreman Link - Laser Optimization II
Mining Foreman Link - Mining Laser Field Enhancement II
Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing II

Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-04-04 12:39:43 UTC
all the tank on the orca is in the structure.

fit the lows with reinforced bulkheads and a damage control (dont fit any cargo rigs kthx)

the rest of the slots can be whatever you want

if somebody succesfully suicides your orca with your DC2 running, remember to tip your hat to them for the effort and isk they just spent

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Natasha Preston
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-04-04 13:39:56 UTC
I fit a DCII on my Orca, and I think this is enough to stop ganks on the Orca. What I meant is, how should we fit the Orca to protect the Hulks.


Quote:
Shield Harm link is your better choice. But it only adds about 8% or so EHP to the Hulks because the Orca doesn't give Siege Warfare bonuses, and the orca pilot probably has the Mining implant and not the Siege Warfare implant.

You could try running medium shield maintenance repair bots, but that only helps against destroyer ganks (in which case EC-300 or EC-600 drones might be better).

For the serious folks, you run an off-grid Vulture command ship with the T2 gang links that boost shield resists along with a pilot who has the right mind link. Then make sure to tank the hulks with the DC2/MSE2 fit (about 29-30k EHP). Once you add in siege warfare bonuses (+10%) and the Vulture, the EHP gets pretty nice.


I guess shield transporter must be useless due to the high alpha these gank ships have. Thanks for the suggestions, will consider the offgrid Vulture.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#6 - 2012-04-04 13:42:03 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
all the tank on the orca is in the structure.

fit the lows with reinforced bulkheads and a damage control (dont fit any cargo rigs kthx)


The difference between a DC2/RB2 fit with/without shield extender rigs is only about 37k EHP (on top of about 250k). If you need the cargo room to have the flexibility between a 57k m3 hold and a 90k m3 hold, then you'll have to rig for cargo. If you're absolutely paranoid, then a pair of shield extenders is the way to go.

But at a minimum, you should always have the DC2 fitted (you can flip between a cargo expander and a RB2 in the low depending on needs). When I'm hauling for a mining op, I run DC2/Cargo in the lows (about 145k EHP), which gives about 72k m3 in the cargo bay. Hauling to market, I usually slim down on the cargo space and fit a full DC2/RB2 fit (about 240-250k EHP), then I only have 57k m3 of cargo space in the external bay.

(I do love the orca's design, it's flexible enough that you can choose to fit for speed, or tank, or volume. It puts the choice in the player's hand and makes it a wonderful thing. Now we just need them to rework Freighters and JFs...)
Natasha Preston
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-04-04 13:54:30 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:

(I do love the orca's design, it's flexible enough that you can choose to fit for speed, or tank, or volume. It puts the choice in the player's hand and makes it a wonderful thing. Now we just need them to rework Freighters and JFs...)


+1

Worst of all, the gankers always knows exactaly what to expect from a Freighter.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2012-04-04 17:53:11 UTC
Also having the Orca pilot trained for Siege Warfare 5 and Armor Warfare 5 also grants 10% shield and 10% armor to everybody he boosts, Orca included. This will probably do more for them than the unbonused links.
KevLor I
Zephyr Corp
#9 - 2012-04-04 20:29:52 UTC  |  Edited by: KevLor I
Disclaimer: The last time I mined seriously, there was no such thing as an Orca.

That said, a 'max' tank hulk fit might be:
[Hulk, Tank]
Micro Auxiliary Power Core II
Damage Control II

Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Medium Shield Extender II
Small Shield Extender II

Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

With 'All Vs', no implants, and vs. omni damage:
29,641 EHP
31,814 EHP (when fleeted with an all V squad leader)
33,815 EHP (same leader with an Orca with Shield Harm Link)

Are Catalysts still the gank-boat of choice? If so....
With 'All Vs', no implants, and vs. Anit-matter:
31,064 EHP
33,379 EHP
35,547 EHP

If you also fit a LST2, you can get 384 shield points every 4.5 seconds. Corrected to EHP against Anti-matter:
+2,122 EHP per 4.5 seconds

My understanding is that you have a few seconds (at least, vs. Catalysts) to respond, so you should get one repair cycle done and maybe even get a second or third. The combination of a good squad leader, a SHL, and a LST2 might make a considerable difference. Especially when I see miners who should know better mining in fits with ~12,000 EHP.

If you take the fit shown above and fleet it with an All V Vulture with shield mindlink, then you get:
37,103 EHP (omni-damage)
39,043 EHP (anti-matter)
(also using an armor gang boost, but it only adds about 500 EHP).

In any case, if your aggressor does not know you are Vulture fleeted, then they 'see' 29,641 EHP but have to kill 37,103, or about 25% more than it 'looks' like. If you also have a local Orca that can reach with a LST2, then you get 2,272 EHP vs Anti-matter x however many times you manage to fire it off (7.5% per rep over the 'apparent' EHP). The Orca should have no need to be cap stable, since it will all be over in just a few seconds.

Btw, what ammo does a ganker use when in a Tornado? EMP?
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#10 - 2012-04-05 00:55:42 UTC
You can also use the B66 and B88 variants instead of the MAPC2, they're 6-12M each but not terribly overpriced for putting on a 200M ISK hull.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-04-05 04:09:25 UTC
If you are overly worried about your miners getting ganked (meaning they are not paying attention to local/dscan) or are mostly AFK mining you could have them mining in Covetors instead. Really the mining Yield is only 6% loss in yield over a hulk when you consider the hulk gets 15% from exhumers but the Covetor would be using a MLUII 9%.

If you're mining in an area that miners can get attacked in, or believe there is a chance of a possible ganking then make those who are not going to be paying attention fly the cheaper ships, because no amount of tank is going to save an AFK hulk from a well organized ganking.
KevLor I
Zephyr Corp
#12 - 2012-04-05 13:46:56 UTC
Quote:
because no amount of tank is going to save an AFK hulk from a well organized ganking.

Oh, but is a joy it would be to watch Concord rip up the gankers while your hulk still lives. An off-grid Vulture and an Orca with a LST can do that, since neither is 'scannable' if they are just looking at the hulk, and the Vulture will not likely be known at all, no matter what. Yes, I know there are gankers that will figure it out and get you, but many hulkaggedons ago I used a Retriever to successfully tank several ganking attempts. It was armor fit, and best I can reconfigure it, it was around 11,600 EHP with a Damnation in system. If I had been smarter back then, I would also have had ECM drones or combat drones so I would have gotten the kill. In any case, one of the original gankers came back in a Thorax (I think) and got me, but I had pushed my luck too far by that point :).

Oh, and put a shield implant in your hulk pilots, 5% will add another 1,000+ EHP.