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New dev blog: Team Security - Now with 100% more Anti-RMT

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Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#481 - 2012-04-05 10:47:15 UTC
I'm sure many people have legitimate concerns with this, but I'm also sure many people have illegitimate concerns and will be making noise to smokescreen their dubious acts.

Stick to your guns CCP and ride out the storm because at the end of the day, the game world will be a better place to play for all of us. It will be interesting to see if those who we've long suspected all along to be massive RMTers *cough* many Russians *cough* will be vindicated.

I look forward to the news updates! Big smile
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#482 - 2012-04-05 10:47:22 UTC
Vulcan23 wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
I'm sorry you don't agree with my stance on the issue but it's the stance and has been every single time I've had to answer the question. It's not changing because what you want is wrong and HAS NEVER EVER EVER HAPPENED. YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT NOTHING.



So, you ARE in fact willing to guarantee that it never WILL happen? Right? Otherwise your statement that people are concerned about nothing is meaningless. Or do you think it is impossible to be concerned about future events? Personally, those are the ones I do tend to get worried about as the stuff that has already happened can't really be helped.

Quote:

If you could give me some indication how many times I need to say that before it finally sinks in then I'll just go ahead and make that many posts and get it over with.


23 naturally.


I think I've given all the assurances I'm going to give on the matter in this thread and I find the repeated harping on niche topics which basically ignore what I've said to be an extremely disrespectful waste of my time. Read through the thread for your answer.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Blastcaps Madullier
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#483 - 2012-04-05 10:48:52 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Florestan Bronstein wrote:

as long as you don't consider the risk of getting caught, RMT ISK is of course substantially cheaper than what you would pay to get the same amount through GTCs.


This. Simple economics dictates that RMT ISK has to be cheaper then GTC/PLEX-sourced ISK to the consumer, otherwise the consumer will do the smart thing and just buy a GTC and turn it into PLEX (or buy PLEX directly from CCP). In fact, it has to be "much" cheaper (for varying amounts of "must") in order for the consumer to take the illegal route of RMT over the sanctioned and protected route of GTC/PLEX.

GTC/PLEX is a very smart move by CCP. It takes the wind out of the sails of the RMT'ers, who now have to sell their product at a discount and it provides a legal, sanctioned, can't-be-scammed method of exchanging GTCs / PLEX. (We'll ignore the "getting scammed after you receive the PLEX in-game issue. That's on the player's head for being dumber then the average bear.)

When you pay some dodgy RMT site money-for-ISK, there's no guarantee other then word-of-mouth or reputation (hahaha) that you'll actually get what you paid for. Heck, probably at least some of them will try and serve up a trojan infection while you visit so they can steal your login details and clean out your wallet.


I had a friend on wow, who bought gold a few times from several sites and on at least 2 occasions she got royaly scammed, when said RMT sites failed to deliver and the thing is it's not like she could get the transaction reversed by her credit card companys due to then they'd contact blizzard etc etc ie hello ban hammer lol nevermind fact that several of the sites sent her AV software nuts with warnings about viruses and trojans trying to load from said sites.

so next time anyones tempted to buy isk from a RMT site consider this, they can scam you if you want and you'll be out of pocket irl with no way of reversing the transaction without risking being banned when your credit/debit card provider contacts CCP to check about it, and secondly your very liable to find viruses and trojans being loaded onto your PC via RMT sellers sites...
CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#484 - 2012-04-05 10:51:51 UTC
Pirmasis Sparagas wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:


Reporting a bot does not insinuate immediate action or actually action at all. It does matter though.

If you are doing nothing against a bot I reported, why should I report them?

this one sentence is giving me the feeling, you dont care about bots at all and all you are doing is only PR...

I hope I'm wrong (or misunderstood you) and you are working on a "bot-free" Eve.


Can I answer this question Sreeg?
What he means, is first, they have to investigate, if he REALY IS a bot. If not - no actions taken. (because players will report false alerts on in game (or outside game) enemies. So you can't trust blindly, you have to investigate.

If I am incorect - please correct me (And don't ban me AttentionSmile )


Additionally, I'd like to point out that while the bot might not disappear over night after being reported, it is really important that you guys keep reporting bots. I won't go into details why, but rest assured that it's something that you can do to help in the war on bots.

Just a random dude in Team Security.
Shanky McStabber
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#485 - 2012-04-05 11:02:17 UTC
Shanky McStabber wrote:
I have a question for Jersey Johnson.

Is your program able to tell the difference between RMT and Isk being traded for Eve Related Services?

As per the CCP Want Ads forums:

5. Paying isk for out-of-game services that are related to EVE such as team speak servers or killboards is allowable and you should preface your thread with WTB [service]


CCP Spitfire Post


Still looking to hear something about this. I would like to make sure that trading Signatures/Vent/TS for isk isn't going to get someone flagged as it seems to me it could look suspiciously like RMT even if it is an "allowed" expenditure of isk.
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#486 - 2012-04-05 11:03:52 UTC
CCP Stillman wrote:

Additionally, I'd like to point out that while the bot might not disappear over night after being reported, it is really important that you guys keep reporting bots. I won't go into details why, but rest assured that it's something that you can do to help in the war on bots.


Ok, lets put it in other words:

Let us assume I find a bot (a real one) and I report it. That will lead to: that Bot will go, soon (TM).
(whatever soon means)?

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CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#487 - 2012-04-05 11:08:11 UTC
Shanky McStabber wrote:
Shanky McStabber wrote:
I have a question for Jersey Johnson.

Is your program able to tell the difference between RMT and Isk being traded for Eve Related Services?

As per the CCP Want Ads forums:

5. Paying isk for out-of-game services that are related to EVE such as team speak servers or killboards is allowable and you should preface your thread with WTB [service]


CCP Spitfire Post


Still looking to hear something about this. I would like to make sure that trading Signatures/Vent/TS for isk isn't going to get someone flagged as it seems to me it could look suspiciously like RMT even if it is an "allowed" expenditure of isk.


I've stated before that I do not support activities not supported by game mechanics. You can call them "loans". You can "rent out vent slots". You can sell pictures of loved ones....

I'm not going to guarantee services that are not explicitly written into the mechanics. If a false positive happens then let us know and we'll figure out how to deal with it. It hasn't.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#488 - 2012-04-05 11:08:37 UTC
Neo Agricola wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

Additionally, I'd like to point out that while the bot might not disappear over night after being reported, it is really important that you guys keep reporting bots. I won't go into details why, but rest assured that it's something that you can do to help in the war on bots.


Ok, lets put it in other words:

Let us assume I find a bot (a real one) and I report it. That will lead to: that Bot will go, soon (TM).
(whatever soon means)?



The only answer we're going to give is in the post you quoted. :)

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Shanky McStabber
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#489 - 2012-04-05 11:16:22 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Shanky McStabber wrote:
Shanky McStabber wrote:
I have a question for Jersey Johnson.

Is your program able to tell the difference between RMT and Isk being traded for Eve Related Services?

As per the CCP Want Ads forums:

5. Paying isk for out-of-game services that are related to EVE such as team speak servers or killboards is allowable and you should preface your thread with WTB [service]


CCP Spitfire Post


Still looking to hear something about this. I would like to make sure that trading Signatures/Vent/TS for isk isn't going to get someone flagged as it seems to me it could look suspiciously like RMT even if it is an "allowed" expenditure of isk.


I've stated before that I do not support activities not supported by game mechanics. You can call them "loans". You can "rent out vent slots". You can sell pictures of loved ones....

I'm not going to guarantee services that are not explicitly written into the mechanics. If a false positive happens then let us know and we'll figure out how to deal with it. It hasn't.


That's cool. As long as you are aware that CCP GMs have stated that those kinds of transactions can be conducted and the official forums can even be used to promote/request these transactions.

I am cool with you burning every RMT'er to the ground, I just hope you don't manage to snag someone who are providing a service that CCP in the past has said is allowed to circumvent the "ISK FOR IN GAME ITEMS ONLY" model.
Sofia Lamorghan
Edenists Unlimited
#490 - 2012-04-05 11:16:44 UTC
Shanky McStabber wrote:
I have a question for Jersey Johnson.

Is your program able to tell the difference between RMT and Isk being traded for Eve Related Services?

As per the CCP Want Ads forums:

5. Paying isk for out-of-game services that are related to EVE such as team speak servers or killboards is allowable and you should preface your thread with WTB [service]


CCP Spitfire Post


If you are offering out-of-game services, the ISK will be transferred FROM a large number of customers TO your character(s)/corp. In RMT, the ISK would flow FROM the RMT trader's character(s)/corp TO a large number of customers. I'd be very surprised if any algorithm would incorrectly detect the former as RMT, and even if it did the difference should be pretty obvious when the flagged activity is reviewed by a human.
Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
#491 - 2012-04-05 11:16:55 UTC
Vulcan23 wrote:
23 naturally.
There's no such thing as the [23]. We do not talk about the [23]. Shhh.

Twisted

/c

★★★ Secure 3rd party service ★★★

Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

Twitter @ChribbaVeldspar
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#492 - 2012-04-05 11:18:09 UTC
It's been a couple of days and I'm just answering the same rephrased questions from the same people at this point so I'm going to go ahead and call this thread a success, put a fork in it and ride off into the sunset. Enjoy!

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Styrling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#493 - 2012-04-05 11:20:47 UTC
Yo last question before you lock this *****, how long is your petition queue from this still? I know you have undone some perma's already but other people are still waiting for a word.
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#494 - 2012-04-05 11:24:11 UTC
Styrling wrote:
Yo last question before you lock this *****, how long is your petition queue from this still? I know you have undone some perma's already but other people are still waiting for a word.


I'm not a GM so I don't know. The ones I've gotten have either done something wrong or were already unbanned. (and they still did something wrong)

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#495 - 2012-04-05 12:11:46 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

Additionally, I'd like to point out that while the bot might not disappear over night after being reported, it is really important that you guys keep reporting bots. I won't go into details why, but rest assured that it's something that you can do to help in the war on bots.


Ok, lets put it in other words:

Let us assume I find a bot (a real one) and I report it. That will lead to: that Bot will go, soon (TM).
(whatever soon means)?



The only answer we're going to give is in the post you quoted. :)

ok, i take that for an "Yes" and say thank you for clarification *g*

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Par'Gellen
#496 - 2012-04-05 13:32:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Par'Gellen
Sreegs dude... You talk a lot about respect and wasting time but avoid direct questions which only makes us ask them repeatedly thinking maybe you have a comprehension problem (*shrug* some people do). Don't get mad at us for hating "politically-correct double-talk say-nothing" answers to real questions. Nobody is asking you to divulge secrets. We just want guarantees that innocent players won't fall into your scripts. If you think waiting weeks in a petition queue is in any way an answer to the issue then you are so wrong I can't even begin to explain it to you.

"To err is human", but it shouldn't be the company motto...
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#497 - 2012-04-05 14:04:07 UTC
Neo Agricola wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

Additionally, I'd like to point out that while the bot might not disappear over night after being reported, it is really important that you guys keep reporting bots. I won't go into details why, but rest assured that it's something that you can do to help in the war on bots.


Ok, lets put it in other words:

Let us assume I find a bot (a real one) and I report it. That will lead to: that Bot will go, soon (TM).
(whatever soon means)?


As someone who doesn't represent CCP in any way I can say what they can't:

Even if you are 100% sure you have flagged a real bot, you could still be wrong.

If it's just some guy with a clever multi-boxing setup (as I have seen done with effectively sticks and string before), it might look to you like a botting operation and be perfectly within the rules despite that.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Neo Agricola
Gallente Federation
#498 - 2012-04-05 14:15:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Neo Agricola
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Neo Agricola wrote:
CCP Stillman wrote:

Additionally, I'd like to point out that while the bot might not disappear over night after being reported, it is really important that you guys keep reporting bots. I won't go into details why, but rest assured that it's something that you can do to help in the war on bots.


Ok, lets put it in other words:

Let us assume I find a bot (a real one) and I report it. That will lead to: that Bot will go, soon (TM).
(whatever soon means)?


As someone who doesn't represent CCP in any way I can say what they can't:

Even if you are 100% sure you have flagged a real bot, you could still be wrong.

If it's just some guy with a clever multi-boxing setup (as I have seen done with effectively sticks and string before), it might look to you like a botting operation and be perfectly within the rules despite that.


You are 100% right, and that is the reason behind that
Quote:
(a real one)
. And I hoped everyone would understand that i mean:
"That char is really a bot" and not "I belive it is a bot".
Just for clarification...

Fakeedit:
And I hope they only ban Bots where they are 100% certain. And I also hope they tread every "I'm a false positiv-Pedition" with a "that guy could be the 0.0001% exception to the rule" attitude and dopplecheck it...

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#499 - 2012-04-05 14:17:35 UTC
Par'Gellen wrote:
Sreegs dude... You talk a lot about respect and wasting time but avoid direct questions which only makes us ask them repeatedly thinking maybe you have a comprehension problem (*shrug* some people do). Don't get mad at us for hating "politically-correct double-talk say-nothing" answers to real questions. Nobody is asking you to divulge secrets. We just want guarantees that innocent players won't fall into your scripts. If you think waiting weeks in a petition queue is in any way an answer to the issue then you are so wrong I can't even begin to explain it to you.


He answered the question like 10 damb times: "We'll evaluate each case if, as and when it happens".

Maybe you don't like that answer. That doesn't mean he's going to give you one you like better if you ask for the 11th time.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Vulcan23
New Eden Advanced Experiments
#500 - 2012-04-05 14:25:51 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Par'Gellen wrote:
Sreegs dude... You talk a lot about respect and wasting time but avoid direct questions which only makes us ask them repeatedly thinking maybe you have a comprehension problem (*shrug* some people do). Don't get mad at us for hating "politically-correct double-talk say-nothing" answers to real questions. Nobody is asking you to divulge secrets. We just want guarantees that innocent players won't fall into your scripts. If you think waiting weeks in a petition queue is in any way an answer to the issue then you are so wrong I can't even begin to explain it to you.


He answered the question like 10 damb times: "We'll evaluate each case if, as and when it happens".

Maybe you don't like that answer. That doesn't mean he's going to give you one you like better if you ask for the 11th time.



A mere combination of words does not a meaningful answer make. Especially when those words are presented in a context that suggests that the problems at issue were not properly understood in the first place, rendering empty answers even emptier. It also doesn't help that the 'answer' is surrounded by contradictory statements that at one moment state that there is literally nothing to worry about and then at the next moment state that the needs of a 'niche' playstyle (a niche playstyle! in MY sandbox?) will not affect the way he proceeds. So, it is really not surprising that people continue to ask for clarification in response to such a complex of empty phrases, contradictory statements, and expressions of a lack of concern for the issues at hand (which in any case seem not to have been properly understood).