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Mining Op configuration. Your thoughts
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Toxicmoon
Practical Application
#1 - 2012-04-02 20:54:26 UTC
Mining op configuration. Which of the following would be the better choice? Note this would be for highsec.

Total people 6
1 Orca
5 hulks

Vs.

Total people 6
2 Orcas
4 Hulks

Logistics of hauling the ore is in question. In high sec. Fill orca, warp to station, unload and come back. Often losing the boost from the orca due to the warp out/back/station dock. VS take 1 of the 5 hulk pilots and have them use an orca for hauling. So the other orca may remain uninterrupted to continue boosting.

I figure option 2 would most likely be the best choice but I wanted a secound opinion, i've been gone for 3 years and just getting back in to groove of things.

Thanks!
Contessa LeBlanc
Parallax Shift
#2 - 2012-04-02 21:08:37 UTC
1 orca
1 itty V (or some hauler)
4 Hulks

This is prob a better set up IMHO.
Iosue
League of Gentlemen
The Initiative.
#3 - 2012-04-02 22:21:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Iosue
Toxicmoon wrote:
Mining op configuration. Which of the following would be the better choice? Note this would be for highsec.

Total people 6
1 Orca
5 hulks

Vs.

Total people 6
2 Orcas
4 Hulks

Logistics of hauling the ore is in question. In high sec. Fill orca, warp to station, unload and come back. Often losing the boost from the orca due to the warp out/back/station dock. VS take 1 of the 5 hulk pilots and have them use an orca for hauling. So the other orca may remain uninterrupted to continue boosting.

I figure option 2 would most likely be the best choice but I wanted a secound opinion, i've been gone for 3 years and just getting back in to groove of things.

Thanks!




it really comes down to how much work you want to do. it's entirely possible to time the orca hauling so you don't lose any cycles with just one orca. it will take some micro managing with warping and activation of links, but its not that hard. plus, you'll have greater yield even if you do lose the occasional cycle. if you want to make it easier on yourself, just go with the two orcas, though you'll be giving up some yield by doing so.
Julien Brellier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-04-02 22:33:36 UTC
1 Orca to remain on station in the belt, providing gang links boosts, drone cover and suckig up all the cans.
1 Orca fit for cargo only to make station runs with the ore.
When using 4 Hulks with a maxed out Orca, even an Iteron V will be hard pressed to keep up with the sheer amount of m3 produced.
Having a second Orca makes more sense.
Xuixien
Solar Winds Security Solutions
#5 - 2012-04-02 23:10:08 UTC
4 Hulks and an Orca produce about 15% less per hour than 5 Orca's and 1 Hulk.

Epic Space Cat, Horsegirl, Philanthropist
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
#6 - 2012-04-02 23:10:12 UTC
Train 1 of your Hulk pilots for minimum skills to fly an Orca. Time the number of cycles it takes to fill your dedicated Orca. Warp the Hulk/Orca pilot to station and switch out to an Orca fit for hauling and go unload the first Orca. Warp back to station, unload the ore and switch back to the Hulk and resume mining.

Rinse and repeat until you tire of mining.



Could work, no?

Be careful what you think, for your thoughts become your words. Be careful what you say, for your words become your actions. Be careful what you do, for your actions become your character. And character is everything. - author unknown
Skorpynekomimi
#7 - 2012-04-03 13:21:00 UTC
Two orcas. One off-grid booster, one on-grid hauler. This also allows for adding more miners.

Economic PVP
Suni Khan
#8 - 2012-04-03 16:02:48 UTC
Xuixien wrote:
4 Hulks and an Orca produce about 15% less per hour than 5 Orca's and 1 Hulk.


nice 5 orca's
Raven Ether
Doomheim
#9 - 2012-04-03 17:40:32 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Two orcas. One off-grid booster, one on-grid hauler. This also allows for adding more miners.


Might as well keep both orcas in the belt to make the scene look more interesting.



@OP, it's a matter of micromanaging one orca vs convenience of two orcas


Don't worry about losing cycles for the momentary interruption of the links, the difference will be abysmal.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#10 - 2012-04-03 19:14:39 UTC
Raven Ether wrote:

Don't worry about losing cycles for the momentary interruption of the links, the difference will be abysmal.


It's the loss of the range bonus which is the primary aggravation, since you lose the entire cycle of ore.
Skorpynekomimi
#11 - 2012-04-03 19:40:37 UTC
Raven Ether wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Two orcas. One off-grid booster, one on-grid hauler. This also allows for adding more miners.


Might as well keep both orcas in the belt to make the scene look more interesting.
.


Instead of keeping the booster at a gate or station for gank protection?

Economic PVP
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#12 - 2012-04-03 19:56:33 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Instead of keeping the booster at a gate or station for gank protection?


Neither suicide ganking nor mining ops are really a speciality so I'm more than happy to be corrected here but do gate/station guns etc provide any meaningful protection in the era of alpha strike ganking?
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-04-03 20:03:58 UTC
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Raven Ether wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Two orcas. One off-grid booster, one on-grid hauler. This also allows for adding more miners.


Might as well keep both orcas in the belt to make the scene look more interesting.
.


Instead of keeping the booster at a gate or station for gank protection?


Hi sec, I think. Also, an on-grid Orca can run mining drones.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2012-04-04 03:57:57 UTC
I have had as many as 3 orcas in a belt, and the mining barges were filling all 3 up faster than we could un load them, one was a booster 2 were haulers. this was of course with around 10 mining ships.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#15 - 2012-04-04 04:00:38 UTC
Tekota wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Instead of keeping the booster at a gate or station for gank protection?


Neither suicide ganking nor mining ops are really a speciality so I'm more than happy to be corrected here but do gate/station guns etc provide any meaningful protection in the era of alpha strike ganking?


lol, will pay isk for pics of automated guns in a belt or grav site.


http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#16 - 2012-04-04 04:32:54 UTC
Tekota wrote:
Skorpynekomimi wrote:
Instead of keeping the booster at a gate or station for gank protection?


Neither suicide ganking nor mining ops are really a speciality so I'm more than happy to be corrected here but do gate/station guns etc provide any meaningful protection in the era of alpha strike ganking?


20 tornados instead of 10 for alpha vs gank for an EHP orca, and you have to scan it too because t2 rigs and a dg or c-type invuln will add whole extra tornados to the task. Its not really feasible to knock a properly positioned orca off the station undock ring if they are paying the remotest attention, because they can dock.

ie its always going to be the cargo orca in the belt that gets blapped if thats what people have in mind. Many less ships, just as much tears.
Samuel Tuffstein
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-04-04 08:15:12 UTC
Toxicmoon wrote:
Mining op configuration. Which of the following would be the better choice? Note this would be for highsec.

Total people 6
1 Orca
5 hulks

Vs.

Total people 6
2 Orcas
4 Hulks



If your not too paranoid about suicide ganks and you have a station 0-1j away from the system your mining in go for a mixture of both.

1 Orca (Booster/Ore Storage; in Belt)
5 Hulks ( 1 capable of flying an Orca)

Once your boosting/Storage Orca is running low on Cargo capacity one of the Hulk Pilots grabs the second Orca, empties the boosting/storage Orca and afterwards joins you in his Hulk again.

It might need a little bit of practice to get the right timing but in the end you will loose less yield than you would loose with the 2 Orca option and you are not forced to switch to roids <15km when your Boosting Orca warps to station.
Pookoko
Sigma Sagittarii Inc.
#18 - 2012-04-04 09:54:00 UTC
I've just done this like last week, and you get more ore per hour with five hulks and one orca. What you need to do is mine far away rocks while Orca's boosting, and switch to near by rocks once orca pilot gives the sign that it will need to leave after the current cycle. Loss of bonus while orca's hauling is not significant enough to sacrifice one hulk for a hauler.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2012-04-05 06:27:15 UTC

Data pulled using EFT, Level V stats


  • Perfect hulks, MLUII x 2, no implants, mining drones II.
  • Perfect Orcas, perfect boosting.
  • Using Kernite mining crystals II.


Hauling details:

  • Based on Orca max haul size (180,000m3)
  • 6 total orca hualing trips per hour.
  • 2 minutes hauling time each trip.
  • 12 minutes of possible non-boosting time.


Assuming: No rats, no crystals breaking, no roids emptying, no re-positioning, no ganks, no missed cycle times, etc.


Yield with boosts 1 Orca, 5 hulks.
------- minute -------- hour --------- all 5 hulks
yield - 2,942 ------- 176,520 ---------- 882,600
---m3 - 3,530 ------- 211,800 -------- 1,059,000


Yield without boosts
----- minute -------- hour ---------- all 5 hulks
yield 1,859 ------- 111,540 ---------- 557,700
---m3 2,230 ------- 133,848 ---------- 669,240


Yield with boosts 2 Orca, 4 hulks.
------- minute -------- hour --------- all 4 hulks
yield - 2,942 ------- 176,520 ---------- 706,080
---m3 - 3,530 ------- 211,800 ---------- 847,200





    1 orca 5 hulks total hourly yield:
  • 728,388 yield (706,080 48 minutes boosted, 22,308 12 minutes non-boosted)
  • 981,000 m3
  • 142,960,712isk

  • This assumes 48 minutes mining with boosts, 12 minutes without boosts. In most situations boost would not be unavailable or lost the entire time while hauling (if timed correctly).



    2 orca 4 hulks total hourly yield:
  • 706,080 yield
  • 847,200 m3
  • 138,582,321isk


So the best time to switch to a 2nd Orca would be once the primary boosting Orca can no longer keep up. Or to have a hulk pilot switch to an Orca when hulks are out yielding what the orca can transport (4 minutes of time lost to 1 hulk).
Toxicmoon
Practical Application
#20 - 2012-04-07 02:35:44 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:

Data pulled using EFT, Level V stats


  • Perfect hulks, MLUII x 2, no implants, mining drones II.
  • Perfect Orcas, perfect boosting.
  • Using Kernite mining crystals II.


Hauling details:

  • Based on Orca max haul size (180,000m3)
  • 6 total orca hualing trips per hour.
  • 2 minutes hauling time each trip.
  • 12 minutes of possible non-boosting time.


Assuming: No rats, no crystals breaking, no roids emptying, no re-positioning, no ganks, no missed cycle times, etc.


Yield with boosts 1 Orca, 5 hulks.
------- minute -------- hour --------- all 5 hulks
yield - 2,942 ------- 176,520 ---------- 882,600
---m3 - 3,530 ------- 211,800 -------- 1,059,000


Yield without boosts
----- minute -------- hour ---------- all 5 hulks
yield 1,859 ------- 111,540 ---------- 557,700
---m3 2,230 ------- 133,848 ---------- 669,240


Yield with boosts 2 Orca, 4 hulks.
------- minute -------- hour --------- all 4 hulks
yield - 2,942 ------- 176,520 ---------- 706,080
---m3 - 3,530 ------- 211,800 ---------- 847,200





    1 orca 5 hulks total hourly yield:
  • 728,388 yield (706,080 48 minutes boosted, 22,308 12 minutes non-boosted)
  • 981,000 m3
  • 142,960,712isk

  • This assumes 48 minutes mining with boosts, 12 minutes without boosts. In most situations boost would not be unavailable or lost the entire time while hauling (if timed correctly).



    2 orca 4 hulks total hourly yield:
  • 706,080 yield
  • 847,200 m3
  • 138,582,321isk


So the best time to switch to a 2nd Orca would be once the primary boosting Orca can no longer keep up. Or to have a hulk pilot switch to an Orca when hulks are out yielding what the orca can transport (4 minutes of time lost to 1 hulk).



Thanks all for the suggestions as for you Styth, thank you for this well thought out and detailed response, very awesome. Thank you!
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