EVE General Discussion

On the topic what I want out of Factional Warfare;

Right now there are two major story lines in EVE: One written by CCP which mostly involves the NPC factions and the one written by the players that is mostly dominated by the big zero sec alliances. Why mostly them? Because EVERYBODY feels the market disturbances caused by events in zero sec either through supply or demand.

But those zero sec alliances did not appear out of nowhere and rarely did a bunch of random people suddenly decide the group together to exploit moon goo. No, these alliances have started as small groups often bound by items outside the world of EVE, like real life friendships, internet communities, interest in role playing, Counter Strike clans, shared language, nationality, etc.

But not everybody has a group like that when they start playing EVE or maybe feel they want to do effort for a guild leader (CEO) they have never met in person and who puts unreasonable demands to what they should do with the gaming time.

Those kind of people would perhaps rather want to cross into the other story line where the setting for conflict and your role is already set making it darn easy to get into. By siding with the NPC factions you avoid the pompous CEO, but most importantly you get a chance to find a group to belong. A group that might later start their own alliance and conquest of zero sec space.

So, Faction Warfare should accomplish two things (besides meaningful game play, of course): One; provide an environment where (new) players can find a social group with a shared goal, and two; bridge the two story lines to increase the players feeling of immersion in the EVE universe.

EDIT: And not only one way immersion; players should both feel they can be a part of the NPC world but also that they can effect it and the direction it is going.

Hirana to be fair those threads often read like scrambled eggs. Yes you will find loud choruses yelling "fix faction war"
But when you actually get into how it might be fixed there is very little agreement.

Yes we can all agree on a few things like the downtime spawn mechanic needs to be changed.

But other than that the views are fairly contradictory. I want no npc involvment in plexes and it to be entirely pvp. Others want the the rats strengthened with the sleeper ai etc. Some want it to be good for solo and small scale pvp. Others think solo pilots should have no place.

I think ccp needs to create a mechanic that leads to frequent, quality, small scale and solo pvp. I think fw occupancy plexing should be that mechanic.

Anything idea that promotes frequent, quality, small scale or solo pvp should be considered. Any idea that would hurt that should be discarded. Once they create that mechanic they will see their numbers climb.

I hate to ask such stupid questions, but uh, why are you still here if it's so damn boring???

I've skilled up for quite a few different things, always thinking that as soon as I could fly "X" or as soon as I could do "Y" the game would be more fun. Every time I reached the goal, I found that there was something missing with it.

- I want to own a small little piece of 0.0, which is currently out of the question unless you're part of the big guys, or pay rent to the big guys.

(Shadowbane, an mmo that failed quite horribly, had one major design flaw. As guilds you could build towns and control territory, and lay siege to other guild towns to gain access to their resources etc. However, the first or biggest guild to reach the highest level of town, was able to produce defenses and offenses greater than anyone else. They could then essentially, keep bombing the other guild towns back into the stone age, never letting them get high enough to even be a threat. Shadowbane eventually had to resort to resetting the servers every few months to allow other people the "chance" of building up their town first and wiping everyone else out, ad nauseum.)

There needs to be some mechanic to the game that allows smaller corps and alliances SOME affect on the game. A small 50 person alliance should not be able to take out a 5000 person one. But there should be something that makes it expensive, or prohibitive for a large corporation to want to wipe them out. A couple years ago, 0.0 warfare was a constant thing. You could always expect to log in and find someone fighting over something. Right now, 0.0 is asleep.

- I want to fly in a small gang, or fly a small fast ship and actually have it be effective, even necessary for a large fleet engagement, other than just more targets for the enemy to shoot at.

- I want my small gang to be able to hack/steal/bomb a POS and actually have some tiny effect on sov space without a fleet of SC or caps. (Hit and run tactics, or guerilla warfare.)

- I want to try a black ops run, with a covert cyno, and a hot drop of 10-12 SB's behind enemy lines. And actually making it possible to do something against the sov of a system with just 12 ships.

- I want to try T3 frigates. :-)

- I want to invent and produce things that are slightly different than anyone else's. Everything on the market is homogeneous and the "he with the lesser material cost" will always be able to sell for cheaper. There is no true competition on the EvE market, it's purely an economy of scale. I want to find a special component in a plex that allows me to make 5 Abaddons, that have a 10% cap increase, and that's it, forever, or I mine a mineral with a slightly higher concentration of some element that makes the next 20 interceptors I build 5% more agile, or I research my BPC and it is a critical success and I can produce 5 Myrm's with slightly more drone bandwidth. I want to build up a reputation and a name as a master craftsman that has the best wares in the galaxy.

I wouldn't be able to sell these on the market with the current setup, so I could contract them, OR making a use for Incarna, I could set up a shop inside a station and people would come to me to see what unique items I have for sale.

Every successful game/MMO has one common thread, they make the player feel the "hero". I want to feel that in Eve. Even if that just means I'm the best damn tackler out there.

-- I want a reason to play the game. Right now, I mostly log in to find my friends and corp mates absent, and space quiet. I as well as they, keep playing, keep paying, hoping to have our excitement in the game renewed and reinvigorated. We have hope if not faith that CCP will bring the awe and adventure back to the game.

My girlfriend started playing eve, she got sucked into it! She played for almost a week solid, running epic arcs, storylines, and missions for LP. She even tinkered a little with PvP. Eventually, she turned to me and said, "It's all the same isn't it?", closed her laptop, and hasn't been back since.

Eve is asleep. Wake it up!

First off, let me say I am absolutely thrilled at how many times I've seen Faction Warfare mentioned in this thread. Zulu, please take some time and get a rough count on how many replies in this thread mention "FW' - it appears to me to be around 30 percent at least. Not that this is an official poll, but I am blown away by how much Faction Warfare has touched so many pilots that aren't part of the scene anymore - and how anxious the community seems to have it back.

That being said.....as one of the few pilots around that has consistently lived in on the frontlines between the Minmatar and the Amarr for the last 2 years since becoming a pod pilot, I have a differing perspective than most.

Especially early on in the thread, many pilots mentioned that they WANTED to try FW, but heard it was broken, and never bothered. This is tragic. As someone who is in a better position than most who comment on the topic to know the real state of affairs, the idea that FW is "abandoned", "stagnant", or "pointless" just simply doesnt match up with the reality of how many dedicated corps still participate everyday.

All that small gang pew pew everyone's been complaining doesnt exist? Its been there every day in FW. Yes, you have to work for it. Just like pirates do. There is patience required at times, waiting, stalking your prey, and springing traps. Sometimes a fight is as simple as forming a gang and flying a loop around systems, other times much more complicated strategies are necessary. But there's always a fight to be found regardless of "reports" or "intel" that say otherwise. As for story involvement, all I can say is the stories played out and documented as we live on the front lines are richer and more entertaining than any official story fluff, no offense to Eve content developers. I'll refer everyone to this media outlet which documents Faction Warfare by those that actually participate regularly. Not those passing through, making judgements, and moving on, but those that live and breath the scene. All I can say is that if you're bored in FW, you're doing it wrong.

The militias have embodied the creative spirit of Eve's gameplay - they've taken a "broken", "dead", "abandoned" feature and made it their home and primary source of pew pew pleasure for years. Some of the most talented small gang pilots are right on the front lines of FW, not in nullsec.

Still, I would LOVE to see more "content fixes" added to FW - LP payout changes, system wide advantages or disadvantages that make systems worth fighting over - all of this would add motivation for mawr pilots to want to participate, and more participation means more fun for everyone. Players have demanded these changes for years, and rightfully so. FW embodies everything from roleplaying, to small gang warfare, to pickup and play pvp fights, to a much needed break from bubbles and bombs.

I truly believe in the power of FW to revitalize the player base's passion for EvE overall - I'm hoping the feedback reaches CCP Zulu and sends the message that no other feature is as well poised to breathe new life into the game during these difficult times. I think hour for hour, FW is one of the best places to invest development in terms of the subscriptions it can attract or reignite. Thanks for everyone for chiming in and giving our community some love, we're tired of squawking all by ourselves in year- old, CCP-ignored threads!

For the record, militia enthusiasts don't have many delusions of grandeur when it comes to where we stand in the triage queue as far as things to fix in EvE. :) Part of my point is that these players have taken an "abandoned" feature and made the most of it anyways through creativity, tenacity, and a positive attitude. I wish more Eve players took this approach, rather than being outraged or bitter that more content isn't being spoonfed faster. Faction Warfare's survival is due to what the players have made of it despite lack of CCP attention since its initial inception. The fun we have, we make ourselves.

I agree with much of what you have to say, no real argument here. You're absolutely right, nullsec needs a lot of love too and believe me, no one wants the nullsec alliances to go back home and stay there more than the lowsec militia crowd. Those of us that make a "career" here do so because we eschew the massive lag-filled attrition battles with primaries called in alphabetical order in favor of the more thrilling, more challenging, small ship small gang warfare, where every split second decision affects the survival of your mates. When nullsec alliances become bored, with no economic incentive to fight over territory, they often come to lowsec and hotdrop just about anything shiny for lulz, and it greatly disrupts the fun gameplay native to lowsec. People stop roaming or flying anything fancy out of constant paranoia over the next drop, and activity overall begins to stagnate.

I personally reject the typical paradigm that highsec / lowsec / nullsec is for beginner / intermediate / advanced players, I think this view of the various regions in eve is both narrow-minded and flawed, though it is held by many. You are absolutely correct, what happens in nullsec bleeds everywhere else, but I would argue the same is true for lowsec life, and highsec life.

Highsec, while being panned as carebearland, is also a vital center of production, trade, and resource gathering. The market hubs in highsec are home to the game's endgame market PvP, which is as important a gameplay element as "flying in space". Likewise, lowsec, being the combined fringes between empire space and nullsec, provides a haven for the pirate scum of New Eden, and is also home to some of the game's top ace pilots. It also hosts Faction Warfare, who's pilots both feed piracy and engage in it themselves. Pirate gangs and Milita fleets are home to much of the pvp gameplay nullsec dwellers complain is "dead", and so any new features and tweaks that can draw interest and enthusiasm for hanging out in lowsec more often, fuels the very pew pew opportunities the player base is clamoring for.

In the end, its all about everything in its right place. I don't feel overhauling lowsec is any less significant than overhauling nullsec, or overhauling industry, POS mechanics, etc. I see the three security zones as equally contributing to the "ecology" of gameplay in Eve's sandbox, and it would be foolish to overlook any one in particular.

Despite the great dialogue - we are on a bit of a tangent, so for Zulu's sake, here are three things I'd love to try but haven't yet....
1) Tech 3 ships. I've put this off mainly because I haven't grown bored of all the other shiny ships in my hangar yet, but I'll get around to them eventually. Maybe if I put it off long enough the balancing issues will be resolved and they'll be even better once I grab one!
2) Tech 2 manufacturing - I have no idea how those autocannons are made, but I go through a lot of em! It would be fun to explore this someday...
3) Upper tier Incursions - the militia decided pretty early on that incursions were boring, but alas these are the only pilots I trust in battle, my Minmatar friends. No offense to anyone, but the thought of joining pubbie fleets to go raiding scares me a bit. But I'd love a shot at earning those fantastic meta capital mods!

Wormhole living with corp in my timezone.
Black Ops gang.
Wardeccing E-UNI, RvB and NoirDOT simultaneously.
Podding the Pirate Of Rancer, Cat O'Ninetails.
Food delivery.
Disbanding Goon[WHATEVER].
Ganking BOTs.

hmmm...

Well for me, i have either: Done it all, Doing it all, or Planning it all :) I love EVE, and planning to do everything: 0.0 sec alliances, FW, high sec missioning, mining, manufacturing, market trading, invention etc etc etc...

Good points Hans.

Here are my thoughts. Yes it does appear that null sec has become boring. I am not going to pretend to be an expert on the whys or what-fors. I just don't hear about any big wars like used to happen when BOB was around. I tend to think it has more to do with mechanics as opposed to leadership but I am not sure.

I have heard various mechanics are to blame - from botting to supercarriers. I don't know what ccp can do about botting - assuming that is the problem. CCP already said they would nerf the supercarriers.


But beyond that I haven't heard a very clear idea of what ccp needs to fix or even can fix. I don't think moving a bunch of industrialists out of wormholes into null sec is going to net eve very many subscribers – and may even be a net loss.


With csm full of null sec leaders who have the spotlight, we really don't see them proposing anything concrete that will end the boredom. I'm not faulting them, I'm just saying perhaps CCP is trying too hard to force feed us null sec.

Perhaps ccp needs to step back from it a bit and think. If there is a really good idea, great implement it. But first figure out the problem, second get a clear solution, then and only then make the change. It seems they have skipped the second step and possibly even the first. Now they seem to just be fiddling with things.

Meanwhile the players have been asking about how small gang pvp can become more viable in eve. Yes they are asking about trying to make it viable in null sec too. CCP is trying to reinvent the wheel and find a way to make small scale pvp work in null sec.

In an interview someone from ccp said they were trying to appease the players by trying to make the frigates and cruiser viable again. I half wondered if they were thinking of moving faction war plexing to null sec!

EVE has a system to provide small gang pvp for players – it’s called occupancy plexing. But it’s broken. Just fix it CCP. Nothing is more important. If it leads to huge corps joining fw that’s fine. The plexes will only let certain sized ships in. If all the plexes fill up then they can open up the pirate factions and create more low sec space. Another black rise will be fine if it’s needed.

Trying to make null sec all things for everyone is just a bad idea. It’s way past time to do some things for the more casual gamers who pvp in low sec. That potential demographic is much larger than those who have the time to spend in null sec. Occupancy plexing is a mechanic that can appeal to that large demographic and it already exists. It just needs to be fixed.

I want to feel like space is big and vast and overwhelmingly unknown.

I want to go someplace nobody else has ever been, fly for days to the farthest reaches of known space to discover and explore new territory, knowing that I am the first to lay my eyes upon that star, the first to map that solar system, to find something new and unique that never existed before... the edges of the universe should be fuzzy and unknown but reachable and "stretchy" as we ever so slowly expand our horizons.

I want exploration to truly be exploratory.

As others (and myself in a different thread) have expressed, I want a sense of home. Had that feeling for a long time in wormhole space, but you never truly own wormhole space, it's not the same as a "real" home system would feel. I drool over the ideas discussed in the nullsec dev blog's threads... the possibility of smaller alliances having a real shot at nullsec is beyond tantalizing.

I want to fight for something meaningful.

I want to be able to buy cheap gaudy earings and other doodads in the Nex store. By cheap, I mean like 20 aurum

I want to try FW but I've worked hard to maintain standings with all the major factions - I don't want to lose access to a part of the universe just because I joined the militia. And I just can't afford to roll another alt

I want to build an outpost, from scratch. I'm a glutton for punishment, what can I say?

I want to try incursions, actually will be trying them out this week, assuming no corporate soap operas or dramalamas interrupt me...

I want to try live events, but I always find out about them *just* after they are done. Sigh...

I want to write some Eve fiction... wish the "cannon" was more organized but I'm slowly slogging through all the Chronicles ... it's a very enjoyable slog