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Yet Another Beginner L4 Apoc/Abaddon Fitting Question
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Daniel Farragut
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-04-04 05:05:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Farragut
Lots of text coming up.

Scanning the forums, the general consensus seems to say that the Apocalypse is superior ship for flying L4 missions for a beginning pilot (due to easier cap usage), but I just want to confirm this. I generally have level four gunnery skills (Motion Prediction, Rapid Firing, Sharpshooter, Surgical Strike, Trajectory Analysis, Controlled Bursts, Large Energy Turret) except for Gunnery, which is level five. I can use T2 drones with Drone Interfacing IV. I have level four cap management skills (Energy Grid, Energy Management, Energy Systems). I have level three armor compensation skills.

I don't have T2 gun skills whatsoever (it's a few months away on my skill plan) and I'm running these missions in Amarr. I'm a fairly new pilot.

I've basically boiled it down to two possible fits, I'm just wondering which is better.


[Abaddon, Beta Centauri]

7x Mega Modulated Energy Beam I (Standard L)
Drone Link Augmentor

3x Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II (Optimal Range Script / Tracking Speed)

Large Armor Repairer II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
2x Armor EM Hardener II
2x Armor Thermic Hardener II

3x Large Capacitor Control Circuit

---

Against Sansha, this fit has 92,995 EHP and can tank 464.86 DPS

(with 1x Tracking Speed)
Tracking: 0.023
w/ Multifrequency L : 352.39 DPS, 28.8 + 19.2km range, 6m 17s capacitor.
w/ Standard L : 234.93 DPS, 57.6 + 19.2km range, cap stable 45%
w/ Radio L : 146.83 DPS, 92.1 + 19.2km range, 24m capacitor

(with 1x Optimal Range)
Tracking: 0.018
w/ Multifrequency L : 352.39 DPS, 33.1 + 25km range, 6m 17s capacitor.
w/ Standard L : 234.93 DPS, 66.2 + 25km range, cap stable 45%
w/ Radio L : 146.83 DPS, 106 + 25km range, 24m capacitor

The above numbers do not include drones, which also have a 20km range bonus.
This fit came from the EVE Wiki fit titled, Abaddon: PvE - Low-skill beam fit.

Targeting Range: 96km


[Apocalypse, Proxima Centauri]

8x Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I (Standard L)

2x Tracking Computer II (Tracking Speed / Optimal Range)
2x Cap Recharger II

2x Heat Sink II
Large Armor Repairer II
2x Armor EM Hardener II
2x Armor Thermic Hardener II

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump
2x Large Capacitor Control Circuit

---

Against Sansha, this fit has 68,502 EHP and can tank 427.67 DPS

(with 2x Tracking Speed)
Tracking: 0.066
w/ Multifrequency L : 458.47 DPS, 18.7 + 9.6km range, 6m 3s capacitor.
w/ Standard L : 305.64 DPS, 37.4 + 9.6km range, 19m 40s capacitor
w/ Radio L : 191.03 DPS, 59.9 + 9.6km range, 7m 36s capacitor

(with 2x Optimal Range)
Tracking: 0.040
w/ Multifrequency L : 458.47 DPS, 24.3 + 15.7km range, 6m 3s capacitor.
w/ Standard L : 305.64 DPS, 48.6 + 15.7km range, 19m 40s capacitor
w/ Radio L : 191.03 DPS, 77.8 + 15.7km range, 7m 36s capacitor

(with 1x Optimal Range, 1x Tracking Speed)
Tracking: 0.052
w/ Multifrequency L : 458.47 DPS, 21.5 + 12.5km range, 6m 3s capacitor.
w/ Standard L : 305.64 DPS, 43.0 + 12.5km range, 19m 40s capacitor
w/ Radio L : 191.03 DPS, 68.9 + 12.5km range, 7m 36s capacitor

The above numbers do not include drones, which do not have a 20km range bonus.
This fit came from the Battleclinic fit titled, Apocalypse: General PvE - Mid-skill - T1 Guns.

Targeting Range: 81km


Phew, that's a lot of data, just putting everything out there. I'm mostly worried about the significantly less dps and tracking speed on the Abaddon when compared to the Apocalpyse. If there are any better fits that I'm missing, please suggest them. I'm a horrible EFT rookie. Thanks in advance.
Conu Leonida
filcaii sus paharu
#2 - 2012-04-04 05:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Conu Leonida
Abaddon is crap on low SP pilots since it's very cap intensive. Also, your fit is really really really overtanked when taking into account Abaddon's bonus to resists.

Go with the Apocalypse since it's a much more forgiving ship. Fit one more heat sink and get a tracking enhancer.

In the end, it will boil down to how many SP you have in Drones, Engineering, Gunnery and Mechanics. With low SP, either ship will underperform and you'd be better off sticking to level 3 missions in a harbinger until you get more SP and are confident that you will not spend 2 hours in the bigger level 4 missions or that you run the risk of loosing your ship.
Ank Parkor
WildSpace Otters
#3 - 2012-04-04 06:42:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ank Parkor
I find your Abaddon fit to be overtanked. This ship is soooo solid.
I'd replace 2 actives hardeners with 2 heat sinks.

The very good point with this ship is that it is hard to lose. You land, you watch hundreds of ennemies firing at you, laugh at them then destroy them one by one.
Cons: it takes ages with low SP because you have to fit a lot of cap rechargers instead of damage mods.

Your apoc fit seems fine to me, a bit overtanked again. The best for you is to make some missions and adjust your tanking needs.
I think it would be better to use this one until your skills increase (energy management V, Amarr BS V)
Oh, try to fit an AB, these BS are sooo slows.

Anyway your skills are good enough to have fun with the two options Smile

[u]Short time trader, short term missionner, long term ambitions.[/u]

Bring justice to EVE: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1171333
Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-04-04 12:18:49 UTC
1. The problem with long range drones is that your drones have to fly over there and fly back. Small drones are used to kill frigates that get under your guns, not to kill stuff half way across the mission.

2. The Abaddon has a damage bonus to turrets. In general, if you're not using a damage bonus to its fullest, you're doing something not optimal. The 7 guns is a big no no.

3. Fits are generally calculated with sp set to all 5. It is very hard to compare them otherwise.

4. Never use radio, use microwave. The damage is much better.

5. At low cap skills, don't use multifrequency, use gamma. The cap drain is much better.

6. Get lvl4 in all relevant skills asap, these include but are not limited to gunnery, amarr bs, capacitor.

7. The Abaddon requires really good skills, including perfect capacitor skills. You're devoting 7! slots to capacitor and still use only 7 guns. I know it looks cool, but don't fly it till you're ready for it.

8. Try some missions to see if that second em hardener is really necessary.

9. Personally I'ld recommend (a variation on) the Apocalypse fit. Perhaps with less capacitor mods and a third tracking computer.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2012-04-04 16:58:31 UTC
Range is going to be a problem on both of your fits. For low skills, I'd recommend a beam Apoc. Something like this should work:


[Apocalypse, basic semi-tanky mishin t1 guns low skills]
Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I
N-Type EM Hardener I
N-Type Thermic Hardener I
N-Type EM Hardener I
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Medium 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I

Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Optical Tracking Computer I

Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L
Mega Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency L

Large Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I


Drones to taste, of course. The MAR is there to help you tank through peak incoming damage. It can be swapped out for a fitting mod if you need it.

Pulse Apocs are very nice with T2 guns, but until you get that, you're going to struggle to apply enough damage out to orbit range on BSs. Abaddons are just hard to work with without very good skills. They can do nasty things once you're there, but at that point you are so close to a Paladin and/or Nightmare that there's almost no reason to fly one in missions.
Melina Lin
Universal Frog
#6 - 2012-04-04 17:22:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Melina Lin
[Apocalypse, Runner]
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

100MN Afterburner II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Gamma L

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Energy Collision Accelerator I


Snipe frigs, cruisers and BC with Infrared crystals. Then get close to battleships using the afterburner and melt with MF or Gamma crystals. Worked really well.
Vircomore Amilupar
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2012-04-04 17:56:13 UTC
Below is the fit that I use on my L4 running Navy Apoc. Switch to T1 guns and Remove one low slot (probably the 1600mm) and you've got a good Regular Apoc. I have it slightly buffer fit because if I end up getting an unlucky draw on Neuts (damn BR Blockade) I have 20k Armor that I can sit in without running my repper.

Also, you didn't mention your Amarr BS skill. Both the Apoc and Navy Apoc benefit greatly from their skill bonus, lets them reach out a good distance with Pulses. (Multifreqency to 26km, Scorch to 67km)

Navy Apoc, L4 Mission Fit

Guns and Tank Only - Stable
Guns, Tank, and Repper - 28 minutes
Guns, Tank, Repper, and AB - 3 minutes

Mega Pulse Laser II, MultiF / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, MultiF / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, MultiF / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, MultiF / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, MultiF / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, MultiF / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, MultiF / Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, MultiF / Scorch L

Tracking Computer II, both scripts.
Cap Recharger II (100mn AB II)
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Large Armor Repairer II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
1600mm Rolled Tungsten Plates
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Rigs
Nano Pump I
Control Circuit I
Control Circuit I
Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
#8 - 2012-04-04 18:51:57 UTC
Use the apoc, you'll be more effective with low sp. The range bonus makes a big difference.
Conu Leonida
filcaii sus paharu
#9 - 2012-04-04 19:00:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Conu Leonida
When I felt rather confident on me running level 4 missions without running the risk of having my first BS popped up (Apocalypse), I went with something like this:


[Apocalypse, Startup]

Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Gamma L
Mega Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I, Gamma L

Optical Tracking Computer I, Tracking Speed
Optical Tracking Computer I, Tracking Speed
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Armor Explosive Hardener II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Large Armor Repairer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5


The above was:
- cap stable because I was afraid to loose my ship
- allowed me to hit to +60km with infrared/MW crystals
- was awesome to pull single groups and pop frigates/destroyers/cruisers until they reached me

I always had with me 4 sets of crystals to swap depending on distance and ships I was shooting at.

Then, after grinding the cash for a Navy Apocalypse I went with T1 pulses for 1 week till I could fit T2 pulses. That was a effing game changer at that point since I was able to use this:

[Apocalypse Navy Issue, Apoc Navy T2]

Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L
Mega Pulse Laser II, Scorch L

Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Core B-Type Large Armor Repairer
Tracking Enhancer II
Tracking Enhancer II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Armor Kinetic Hardener II
Armor Explosive Hardener II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

Hammerhead II x5

The only bling I ever bought was that complex repper. I always swap between Scorch and Conflagration. Cap Stable on Scorch and 10mins on Conflag.

Once i get some other skills finished, I'll look into fitting a cap booster to get a +ROF rig and eventually more gank. I know cap stable amarr ships are "doing it wrong", but I'd rather not loose it yet :)

Also, at least 50% of the mission completion was taking a look on eve-survival.
Cfiloruz Xilocient
Not Quite So Sinister
Shadow Empire.
#10 - 2012-04-09 11:44:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Cfiloruz Xilocient
"Dont rush into battleships.... " thats what i heard when i was @2.5mil sp and lovely 29 days old in eve sitting in my lovely abaddon

i was flying something like

Abaddon fitting wrote:

Large Armor Repairer I
Power Diagnostic System I
Heat Sink I
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardene
Imperial Navy Armor Kinetic Hardene
Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membran
Damage Control I

Cap Recharger I
Cap Recharger I
Cap Recharger I
Tracking Computer I

Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency
Tachyon Modulated Energy Beam I, Imperial Navy Multifrequency
Small Tractor Beam

Large Capacitor Control Circuit
Large Capacitor Control Circuit
Large Capacitor Control Circuit

Hobgoblin II x


Later as my skills grew fitting navy LAR was a big improvement

As of stats. i can not replicate the exact skillset but it was enough to do level 4 missions. the useage of power diag instead of cap relay is intentional as i remember it being really REALLY hard to get this thing to fit

navy eanm and the faction hardeners are quite worth it and aint overly expencive. and are useable in future fits or resellable

As with my skills now this fit has (TC is without script spo boosting both)
Navy multi: 35+29km 581 dps 10m7s *might be less for you) (you're looking probably at 450-500 or so) as i have all lvl5 except falloff
navy Standard: 71+29km 387 dps 55% stable (you really dont need to shoot any farther than this


tank shows 490 dps and this fit is against gurista wich is one of the most common and hardest to tank mission except angels
When you get armor compensations to 4 or 5 and get navy repper then abaddon is able to tank any mission with 2x IN EANM and you can have all kinds of heatsinks in the free slots

In abaddons defence. altho apoc at low SP is alot easyer to fly Abaddon looks better, thats personal preference, and teaches you more. Cap management, pulsing your repper, and learning to shoot stuff on aproach rather than letting them come to orbit

as per experience over some/few years
* as your skills go up you need less and less tank as damage becomes big part of your tank
* this ship is able to fit 8 tachyons with high sp and in mission fit dishing out 900\ish dps with those tachies
* its a challenge to cap out ship that has 8 or more minutes in eft when you put it into a mission where are no neuts
* looking at your stats you aparently dont have good hardwiring in your clone. here comes sugestion(replace the x with number in your price range)
- i just found out they changed the wire names.... i will never forgive them CX is my initials aswell as my favourite wire /rant
- EG-60x (dont have to get the 6% one any will do) but it helps you alot getting more out of PVE fit
- CB-70x (it really helps with turret cap useage.
- EM-80x (again.. true abaddon implant... you need that cap
- SS-90x (bonus to ALL turret damage) its pricy but it works from small to large
- LH-100x ( large energy turret damage bonus.) If you ever get a paladin then for this slot i recomend Pashan's turret
handling mindlink
Voith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-04-09 13:10:54 UTC
If you can't use Scorch don't fly Amarr.