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Warfare & Tactics

 
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The rarest career path: The Fleet Commander
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Shadows Of The Federation
#41 - 2012-04-04 06:25:45 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:


And seriously ... somebody wants to learn to be an FC and you copypaste a massive load of military books for him :D ... Very little one could learn from those for the FC job. Tbh ... if I learned that my FC read a pile of real world military books to become an FC .. id bail the fleet asap.



You mean Sun Tzu doesn't help you blow up madebelief spaceships ? Blasphemy !
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#42 - 2012-04-04 07:19:15 UTC
I think 'you have to have it in you' is a cop-out. That excuse is older than the Internet. The majority of people who get anywhere with anything do so with experience and work.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2012-04-04 14:58:55 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Cedo Nulli wrote:
I personally tend to shiver when people claim they want to be FCs (leaders) ... Because you either are one or you aint.


Completely untrue. The best FCs I know got as good as they are because they spent weeks, months, years getting fights. Day in, day out.



They most likely had the FC qualities to begin with .. they only needed the game-wiki to be downloaded into their heads via the game.

Doing a billion fights doesent make you into an FC .. it just makes you into a pvper. 2 different things.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2012-04-04 22:26:37 UTC
Cedo Nulli wrote:
They most likely had the FC qualities to begin with .. they only needed the game-wiki to be downloaded into their heads via the game.


I knew two of them when they were new, they were utterly awful. Two years later, they're pretty boss.
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#45 - 2012-04-04 22:44:49 UTC
It's not Nature v. Nurture, its Nature and Nurture.

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2012-04-06 12:24:32 UTC
HEY RICK!

Dodixie > Hek
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#47 - 2012-04-06 12:57:32 UTC
I've known FCs who were good the first fleet they ever ran. But I've known many more who were utter crap for the first couple of months, and today are brilliant.

Then of course there's those who started crap and stayed so. But what separates them and the previous group is, in my experience, not so much some innate skill of FCing, but rather an innate skill of learning. The forever-crap ones seem to be mainly characterized by an unwillingness to hear suggestions, and lack of interest in analyzing what went well and what sucked at their previous fleets.
Valkyrie D'ark
Armed Resistance Movement
#48 - 2012-04-25 07:58:40 UTC
Xi 'xar wrote:
Take a couple of agony unleashed classes and then continue to fly with them as an allumni. Honestly, nothing taught me more about hearding cats than the incredible competence of their FCs.


^That.
Dbars Grinding
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2012-04-26 00:54:06 UTC
every time i see a join rvb post i grind up a cat in my juicer and drink it.

I have more space likes than you. 
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2012-04-26 03:54:37 UTC
Dbars Grinding wrote:
every time i see a join rvb post i grind up a cat in my juicer and drink it.


Yep. Should be 'join Faction Warfare' so we can have less poorly-informed/outdated ideas about FW whizzing around the forums.

[/plug]

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Typherian
V.O.I.D.
Pandemic Legion
#51 - 2012-04-27 19:56:02 UTC
Simple advice from my experience fcing. There are fights and there are massacres. Learn how to spot a one sided bloodbath before it starts and then either avoid the confrontation or get out a mop to clean the field after you stomp someone flat. Hard fought wins are good.... Getting your fleet killed in a fight you could never win isn't fun.
Daemon Ceed
Ice Fire Warriors
#52 - 2012-04-27 21:16:19 UTC
Rick Galshin wrote:
I've done a little solo nullsec PvP (with little success so far)


Wouldn't a bit of success in solo nullsec pvp be a good idea before you FC an even less successful group of noobs out to die in hilarious ways?

:popcorn:
Keno Skir
#53 - 2012-04-29 04:19:13 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
No way just anyone can "learn" to be a good FC.
You are it or you ain't.


Do not listen to this man.

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Hyperion Andromeda
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-05-01 00:12:04 UTC
Greetings galactic capsuleers and veterans,

It has been a while since I ever played EVE online at all, but this discussion did caught my interest as I too am looking towards a certain "role" that I wish to fulfill at some point.

Here I read that one says,
Quote: "No way just anyone can "learn" to be a good FC.
You are it or you ain't".

Where another says to not listen to that person.

In my opinion and point of view:

Fleet Commander is a leader. To lead one would need responsibility.
The way you lead a fleet does differ especially from person to person if one would look at their ability to lead.

In life there are leaders and followers and in this I do strongly believe that having the responsibility and leading capacities come with being born with it or not.

However: To be a Fleet Commander one would need the neccessary experience within EVE Online in say PvP battles aswel as common sense and experience in the game itself.

The way I see it, and that would mean I have a long way to go myself, is that a Fleet Commander should be achieved when a player has at least been 6 months to a year in EVE online, especially because it takes alot of time and energy to get your way around in EVE online and it takes a strong will and a handful of not giving up in this game.
Keno Skir
#55 - 2012-05-01 12:51:50 UTC
Leadership qualities are nice and you need them to persuade people to do what you say :P

The most charismatic commander in the world will lose his whole fleet if he hasn't learned about : (in no particular order)

- Enemy ship types (all of them) and what each one is capable of.

- Area in which you are operating- Know the names and layout of all surrounding systems in case you have to change plan or split the fleet. Also which rules you will be subject to during the patrol (gate guns, kill right counters or nulsec rules etc).

- Fleet construction - Know how to build a fleet both specific to one task and also varied enough to handle the unexpected.

- Pilots under your command - Where possible you should know each pilot in your gang / fleet. Knowledge or what everyone is capable of will help you assigning the right jobs to the right people.

- Supplies - Larger fleets may need ammo and other charges brought in by non combat pilots, not everyone in the fleet has to be shooting.

Logistics - Ships for healing other ships by way of transfer of Armor, Shields or Capacitor. Occasionally also used to provide tracking boosts or other combat boosters depending on the need of the gang / fleet.

- Scouts - Shuttle or frig/interceptor pilots should be on lookout a couple of jumps away from the fleet on as many sides as possible. Both for potential targets and avoidance of larger enemy fleets. (perfect role for new pilots as long as they are feeding their info to someone with a little more experience).

- Tacklers - Pilots willing to suicide (usually) a cheap ship in order to lock down a target for the dps ships. (perfect role for new pilots)

One quick last suggestion, as the FC do not be tempted into flying the most expensive ship in the gang / fleet. You will be primaried first, destroyed first and have to spend the rest of the fight offgrid unable to see what's going on. Your real power as the FC is in your words and the decisions you make, not the dps you are capable of laying down for your guys.

Probably missed a bunch, i'm not an experienced FC but the concept really interests me and it's one of the reasons i started EvE nearly a year ago :)

Black Lanterns Blog <- Read my ramblings -.-

250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <---
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#56 - 2012-05-01 17:59:21 UTC
Flurk Hellbron wrote:
No way just anyone can "learn" to be a good FC.
You are it or you ain't.


that is not true
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#57 - 2012-05-01 22:39:36 UTC
Lock out wrote:
Cedo Nulli wrote:


And seriously ... somebody wants to learn to be an FC and you copypaste a massive load of military books for him :D ... Very little one could learn from those for the FC job. Tbh ... if I learned that my FC read a pile of real world military books to become an FC .. id bail the fleet asap.



You mean Sun Tzu doesn't help you blow up madebelief spaceships ? Blasphemy !

Sun Tzu helps, but only if you understand what he wrote (and can translate from wisdom for real-world infantry and cavalry armies to a space game with made-up rules...)

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#58 - 2012-05-02 03:47:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
If you want a really easy way to learn some basic FC skills (and even sometimes pretty advanced ones - depending) - sign up for FW, stay in your NPC corp then, and drop into a JC (with crappy or no learning implants - combat clone is good - you can do this with corp standings with say an NPC corp if you want to.. I did mine with Carthum.

Then head over and pick up any and all FW fleet ops you can grab, you will have some fun and learn the basics of fleets and all that mess in a "shallow-end" of the pool, there isn't any real issue... now don't go saying now I am a PvP FC to people (or they will laugh)... but you will have a pretty good idea of how it works, rather like a bicycle with training wheels - pedel this, steer with this, etc... the basics, but it is a good primer, once you have done a number of these you will have some real world experience in managment of fleets in ops, and if you win a few lose a lot - you will learn all the UI and other functions, how it is to work with big(ger) groups of people with various levels of well skills, brains, etc.

From this you can then do the theory of FC with some practical experience - this alone will change your way of thinking, then if you decide this is for you - you have a basis to start from, and you will have a step-up from someone with no experience IF you decide then to jump in - your FC trainer will value that you know at least how to form a fleet, do all the UI and management and have some time in the seat, your record may be the same as George Washington's - lost most of the time, but you can certainly learn alot (as he did) with time and endurance.

I can say, that even if its just FC/boosting in an orca in a mining op, it is a craftmanship aspect, you get that down and you will always FC well, if you fail at the little things, you can never be expected to get the big things right.
nasty1
R-.A.-G.-E
#59 - 2012-05-04 14:32:30 UTC
I have written something about the subject lol I have many years of experience.

Fleet Commanders Tips (50)

also while I'm here.

New to the Militia Tips (50)

new to the militia, first you need to know how to act in a fleet.

Disclaimer
I don't pretend to be the best or the worst, I can't say it's easy or hard. Shocked

every fleet commander has their own style and every fleet commander is one special dude, they're very unique people indeed

To be able to stand up in front of a group of people still makes me nervous at the beginning, but I have no problem telling people to shut up in a more polite way then shut up.

Your fleet are the heroes, you provide a service and if you look at it this way and be humble and polite, respectful but stern, don't squeak too much and let people have fun, if you do this then that is three quarters of what it takes to be a good commander.
Coolsmoke
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2012-05-05 00:31:23 UTC
1) Be sober.
2) Don't Panic.
3) There is no spoon.