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New dev blog: Team Security - Now with 100% more Anti-RMT

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CCP Guard
C C P
C C P Alliance
#401 - 2012-04-04 12:55:13 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Guard
Grey Stormshadow wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:


PLEX are only for snitches.


I have solid information that CCP Sunset and CCP Guard were selling RMT Quafe in fanfest. CCP Punkturis rigged the delivery courier interface with some sort of macro program and CCP Navigator was running cloaking device to keep entire project under the radar. Rumor is that CCP Soundwave was the mastermind behind this scam and that it benefited the group with tens of billions of free isk. Please take a look and don't forget to send me a plex for telling you all this!


You know too much. I've dreaded this day for a long time but I always knew it would come...

Sreegs...please make it quick.

CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer | @CCP_Guard
Ximena Navah
Vox Shadows
#402 - 2012-04-04 13:22:08 UTC
Can our overlords give us an estimate of how many RMT/Botters have been banned and how much isk has been poured down the sink?

I ♥ CCP Bear
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe
#403 - 2012-04-04 13:23:50 UTC
Wait...there is a PLEX for Snitches program ? P

I wonder if that can be 'gamed' Twisted
xxwaynoxx
Nerkcorp
#404 - 2012-04-04 13:30:52 UTC
we'll be watching the Elonya ice belt, our local bot paradise, to see if the numbers decrease...

And one of ours was very active in notifying CCP of activity, so some rules as to the snitching would be appreciated. ie depth of info
Freibuis WasHere
Legion of Lost Souls
#405 - 2012-04-04 13:43:33 UTC
OMG.. I cant believe I am actually mining again.. not because there are roids to mine again but because low end mins are increase in price to fast. faster then most low end players can absorb. Trit almost touching 6 isk and isotopes at almost ready to reach 1000 isk. plus the fact that plex prices are becoming more then the average player can absorb.


Cant believe this is not butter. I love the changes.. but as an industrialist.. it is also killing us slowy Big smile... maybe in 3 months it my balance out. any way. Good to hear. great changes, keep them coming


CCP Sreegs. 2 Questions.

1: Has any one from your department consulted with the king of eve econmics CCP Dr.EyjoG about the fast pace of removing Botters (not RMT's) example: effects on market. effects on player uptake in other areas, accounts going inactive because price are getting to high fast.

2: Question about donations made to players who could be RMT/botting and we not know about it. example.. I donate from time to time small somes to Eve uni chars to help them get started and big amounts to friends (heck I feel generous from time to time). If they were later found to bot/RMT would I also be liable? would it be in my best interest now to stop giving cash to new players? If I was to donate a large sum of isk to another player/corp/aliance is there a way to check that they are not on a list of Botters/RMT's to prevent my self from being lumped accidentally in the same trash pile/



I cant belive I am actually getting excited about mining again. (/me hides under the couch away from his own sarcasm )
Echo Mande
#406 - 2012-04-04 13:55:13 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Remulon McNab wrote:
I am curious if you guys (CCP) could make a dynamic counter thing that shows information on how many bans have been served and how much isk has been sinked.

so we're able to follow this info "semi-realtime"

at the other hand Sreegs well done (with the anti-RMT+BOT) and we definately sleep better at night. (Did you get Roc Wieler as personal coach Big smile)



Not sure we'd be too comfortable with something automated but we will be giving more detailed numbers.

I'm going to the gym with GM Moxie, CCP Soundwave and CCP Mindstar. We're doing something called the Ultimate Anime Workout and Soundwave guarantees it's going to make me go supersaiyan.


A pity really, but understandable. On the other hand there's probably a market in allowing the peanut gallery to bet on how much ISK and how many supercaps CCP bans/eats on any given day.Lol

Keep up the good work. Banning bots might make it possible to do mining for a nice profit and manufacturing for a bigger profit than right now.

Echo

Wallet remarks everywhere
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#407 - 2012-04-04 14:08:16 UTC
CCP Stillman wrote:
I wasn't going to butt in on this good discussion. But since it was requested, hi!

In a few weeks, once we have more data and pretty graphs, we'll make a numbers blog. So look forward to that. Smile


can you tell how many PLEX had ben seized ?

and as the good doctor said , there are 10k plex sitting on banned accounts already , any plans to reintroduce em ?

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Echo Mande
#408 - 2012-04-04 14:18:58 UTC
Jim Luc wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Jim Luc wrote:
By the way, is there any way we can put an end to the endless "Player Transfer" phishing spam? I've been getting lots of it and forward each to security@ccpgames.com - usually it all goes to the trash anyways. I generally don't even click any links in an Eve-related email, even if it's from CCP. They're offering free time but I won't take their survey simply because I don't trust any emails from ccp or related anymore.

Is there a way we can determine if an email link is authentic, and each email that's sent from CCP also be accessible via logging into our accounts without clicking through a link? It would be nice to see all CCP correspondence, even marketing & such, in our Account Settings pages. Just a thought - keep up the tremendous work Sreegs!


I'll look into this. I hadn't thought of it actually and I think it's a good idea. Unfortunately we don't own The Internet so we can't stop people from sending mails. We're working on the problem but there's no really easy solution given the technology involved.



Ha, yes I realized after sending that you can't control all the spam of course LOL - just that there might be some IP addresses that you could release as being on a public watchlist from known phishers. Idunno - just throwing ideas out there Big smile


Adding a section to account management for CCP's messages would probably be the most secure way to do it. Then all CCP'd have to do is put a note/page/rant there and send an email note ("We've decided to annoy you!") to direct you there. Sending an eve-mail note to the account's toons (from CCP Robocrat ?) would also be possible if not desireable.

Wallet remarks everywhere
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited
#409 - 2012-04-04 14:20:35 UTC
Chribba wrote:

I also do report suspicious transfers as I don't wish to be banned myself and I do not support RMT. I do see the problems with loans that VV is talking about as that is a somewhat different thing compared to my 3rd party service.

I'd be happy to support CCP in any way I can and hope that they continue on discussing this with us should there be issues with how me and others provide services to help making it harder to RMT.

/c


I have to agree with Chribba here. But we need some input from CCP, for service providers such as Chribba and I about how we can deter RMT while protecting ourselves. Personally I'm involved in 3rd party services like Chribba and loan services like VV, so my exposure to potential bans isn't exactly comforting, especially when I simply can never know for sure where the isk comes from.

Grendell ♥

◄[♥]►3rd Party Service◄[♥]►

♥ Securing Peace of mind ♥
John Frohike
Revival.
OnlyFleets.
#410 - 2012-04-04 14:21:02 UTC
Death to Bots, death to RTM bastards! May the skys be filled with the bodies of the guilty!
ctx2007
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#411 - 2012-04-04 14:37:50 UTC
amazing how many toons are up for sale in forums Big smile

You only realise you life has been a waste of time, when you wake up dead.
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#412 - 2012-04-04 14:41:40 UTC
ctx2007 wrote:
amazing how many toons are up for sale in forums Big smile


thought you cant sell if flagged ??

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Shanky McStabber
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#413 - 2012-04-04 14:43:25 UTC
I have a question for Jersey Johnson.

Is your program able to tell the difference between RMT and Isk being traded for Eve Related Services?

As per the CCP Want Ads forums:

5. Paying isk for out-of-game services that are related to EVE such as team speak servers or killboards is allowable and you should preface your thread with WTB [service]


CCP Spitfire Post
Darth Tickles
Doomheim
#414 - 2012-04-04 14:43:55 UTC
Lt Pizi wrote:
thought you cant sell if flagged ??


the theory is theyre being dumped before they get negged/banned
Chris Wheeler
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#415 - 2012-04-04 14:48:18 UTC
Allataria wrote:
CCP really needs to look at the root of the issue which is making isk in game in any way is terribly boring. Ratting or mining or hauling or missioning. It doesn't matter how you make your money they are all incredibly dull. The amount of time you have to devote to turn any profit especially ratting and mining is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that if bitters are completely removed before any changes or fixes are put into place to resolve this issue the market willsuffer. Prices will soar an the output ofitems and ships will decrease. I doubt many people realise just how much the current mlarket is dependent on botters especiallythe miners. Let me say though I am not condoning or supporting them but most of the boys are a result of the game being just so dull and repetitive in the ways we make our isk. Incursions however are a good contrast as they are fun and enjoyable in how we make our money. But the problem still is that's its hard and boring to make isk especially in low and null sec. If we could find new ways to get people to actively engage the game to make isk and make it time effective we could seriously reduce the amount of botters in the game. Banning bots wont silver the problem as to why there are bots. It will just cause further issues down the road. Ccp needs to look at the initial reasons why people not and improve resolve and enhance the ways we make our isk in an effective and timely manner.


This reads like a left-wing political commentary. Pro illegal immigration (bots) because the legal citizens(players) don't want to do the work that the illegals are willing to do.
Supply and demand will balance everything out. Illegals get deported, ore supply will drop causing prices to go up (and prices of everything else as well). Since ore prices are higher, it is now worthwhile for legal citizens to mine, which will increase supply and lower prices. Prices are going to bob around until they reach equilibrium. The Government (ccp) needs to enforce the laws they produce (ex: no bots) and let the market regulate itself. They are doing that and all legal citizens will benefit from it.
If making money was easy and the funnest thing in the game, inflation would skyrocket, but just like in the real world, the fun comes from SPENDING the money:)
Also, Sreegs rocks.
Nekopyat
Nee-Co
#416 - 2012-04-04 14:52:44 UTC
Now here is the dark question.... what is the false positive rate on this?

A while back I knew a player who was not involved in RMT, was 'detected' as such, and found he had no real recourse to defend himself. Every query to customer service came back with 'we have conclusive evidence' and nothing else. The person made heavy use of multiple boxes, PLEX, and 'power of two', but no bots. Granted this was a year or two ago during that first round of 'unholy rage!' so perhaps things have improved since then, but at the time it was rather chilling to watch.

The best guess anyone came up with was they thought the ISK transfers between his own accounts were RMT going on.... but since people are happy to have big stats when people talk about 'number of accounts banned/ISK destroyed', the political incentive to ferret out the false positives is not that high. It didn't help that as the discussion with the GM progressed it became more clear that the person's actual crime was 'too many accounts, too much time online'.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#417 - 2012-04-04 14:57:24 UTC
Chris Wheeler wrote:

This reads like a left-wing political commentary. Pro illegal immigration (bots) because the legal citizens(players) don't want to do the work that the illegals are willing to do.

I thought this was the right wing argument?

You can't deport them! They're the cheapest servants I've ever had!
(not fond of either wing, I'll walk TYVM).

Needless to say, the rules are there for a reason, and in the case of botting I would invite anybody who thinks the game is too boring to play to go outside and quit %#$#ting in our sandbox.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#418 - 2012-04-04 15:01:52 UTC
Darth Tickles wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
thought you cant sell if flagged ??


the theory is theyre being dumped before they get negged/banned


i c
well then , maybe ccp should ban character sales for a short period
Edit
or at least put a warning

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Chris Wheeler
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#419 - 2012-04-04 15:04:35 UTC
Allataria wrote:
This was an argument to reduce botting not RMT. Your statement seems that you still don't understand the reasoning most people use to support why they not. All I see is we aren't willing to look at new ways to improve our game and help our players we just want a quick solution regardless of the implications that it creates. When I mean fun I mean anything other then warp to belt kill these rats. Warp to next belt. Rinse repeat. Missed are far enjoyable then ratting or running anomalies. Null sec and all space needs more and engaging ways to make isk. Sitting in a belt with a miner or ratting ship for six hours a day is not fun way to make island compared to missions in high sec.

Your statement is highly disturbing for those of us who want the game to improve itself and that CCP is listening to the entire playerbase not just a minority. More research could have been done in understanding why people bot and ask those who do why they do it so the game can be improve d for the better and enjoyment for all instead of you will be banned and we don't care about trying to improve the game.

It will be interesting to see how the market will react to all these accounts being banned when so much of the.economy depends on their output. My guess is negatively. Might be a good time to start buying minerals


Let me summarize for TLDR crowd: "It's not my fault I bot, ITS A DISEASE! I am a VICTIM. (please send isk to this poor, helpless victim)"
Chris Wheeler
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#420 - 2012-04-04 15:11:02 UTC
Allataria wrote:
All I see here is I'm a pubbie who likes to mission customer the how I play. Try ratting in null sec for 6 hours a day and tell me its more fun and productive then missions. Oh that's right its not. CCP is failing to look at reasons and causes to hitting and is lazy going for the easy fix. Long time players have tried in vain to express the shortcomings of the game but it has fallen on deaf ears time and time again. Maybe when these bots get banned and loads of long timers stop subbing and the in game market falls apart and CCP starts to.lose.money they will see the larger picture.


Pelosi plays EVE?!?!?