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CCP your RMT policy sucks
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Kogh Ayon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-09-26 22:18:28 UTC
At the moment, a player will be permanently banned immediately if the GM believes that he is involved in RMT.


This was sounds good; removing the RMTers from the game will make legit players happy and keep a healthy balance in the game.

However, unfortunately and obviously, the GMs are making mistakes at a fair frequency.

As my two years experience in EVE, I have seen dozens of people were banned for “EULA Violation” (Yeah the GM does not even say that you were banned because of RMT). Oh that includes me.

Many of them made a petition of course, and as I count, there are about at least 40% of them were eventually unbanned with apologize from the GM.

The time that the GM deals with a ban petition varies from 3 days to two weeks, usually more than a week. The GM would not unban you once you file a petition of course even if you are innocent :P .
They will ask you some questions and then question after questions.

So finally, having an INNOCENT account unbanned with apologize from the GM would take the player more than a month. (It took me two months to wait for the replies from the GM; I was playing WOW at the meantime, thanks that game was boring that I came back)

Two months, unbanned, cool? No, if you think that’s all you must have a pretty low EI (Emotional intelligence). Those people, who were banned for mistake or simply suspicion of the GM, have a fair chance to lose the ardor to keep playing.

The two months break itself is a dash of cold water on people’s enthusiasm. Also, people feel CCP does not respect them and feel their stuffs are not under their control, not in safe. I have a friend does not even try to file a petition after he got banned (he has played for two years), I suggest him to petition his account back because I know he hasn’t ever RMTed (We know in RL and I have his full API). He says “No, I just feel my efforts are not in safe that I can control.” No words I can reply.

I really suggest, for the first time “RMTer”, just fine the “suspicious” or “confirmed” (but actually it would be a joke for the GMs are not the God or Sherlock Holmes) in isk, double or triple the isk you “believe” he “purchased”.

Thus people can still keep playing in some ways (with the help from friends for example) while waiting for the reply of petition.

It would not do any harm to the game but reduce the meaningless grief on innocent players, who may just have some strange transactions with friends.


tl;dr
Just fine the first time "RMTer" in double instead of a immediately ban, to reduce the meaningless loses on the innocent/legit players caused by the mistakes from the GM which has a fair chance to be made.
Gregor Palter
#2 - 2011-09-26 22:20:10 UTC
Please ask for an open investigation on the forums, by a GM/DEV. Thank you.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#3 - 2011-09-26 22:24:27 UTC
the RMTer will get a warning and realize their caught, swap over to a new account and carry on like nothing happened...

now on the other hand i do agree that the process to appeal to get unbanned needs to be a bit quicker.....

The Drake is a Lie
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2011-09-26 22:29:29 UTC
I'm not saying I don't believe you, I'm just saying that you do rather smell like a dirty whining ISK buyer.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#5 - 2011-09-26 22:32:07 UTC
This is like the hundredth thread of this nature that we've seen, is what I'm saying. And they almost all ended the same way: An ISK buyer running off after exposing himself as one in public.

Still, by all means feel free to post your full API, so that you can be publicly audited by the players you're (I assume) asking to support you. Give us the evidence and you'll get our support. Weasel out of it, and we can skip straight to the lulz.

Your call, really.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#6 - 2011-09-26 22:34:12 UTC
I do wonder what these innocent people manage to do that gets them banned for botting.
Kogh Ayon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-09-26 22:41:08 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
This is like the hundredth thread of this nature that we've seen, is what I'm saying. And they almost all ended the same way: An ISK buyer running off after exposing himself as one in public.

Still, by all means feel free to post your full API, so that you can be publicly audited by the players you're (I assume) asking to support you. Give us the evidence and you'll get our support. Weasel out of it, and we can skip straight to the lulz.

Your call, really.

If you think that I were a RMTer, feel free to file a petition.

There are dozens real botter/rmters in those level 4 mission hubs, that didn't see much people go report them(I'm the one who keep hunting the bots), but only these timid guys like you can only post some weak/harmless replies on the forum.

baltec1 wrote:
I do wonder what these innocent people manage to do that gets them banned for botting.


You don't need to petition if you were banned for botting. lol
Graic
Time Sync
#8 - 2011-09-26 22:51:32 UTC
It's arguable that those of us on the forum have neither the data or the tools to make an informed decision as to whether we agree or disagree with you.

Just an observation.
Kitty McKitty
In Praise Of Shadows
#9 - 2011-09-26 22:53:27 UTC
Serves you right for buying ISK. The fact you got away with it doesn't give you the right to come and make a fool of yourself on the forums.

♥ Haviing your portrait painted here helps INTAKI Disabled Children ♥
The Apostle
Doomheim
#10 - 2011-09-26 22:57:02 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Quote:
As my two years experience in EVE, I have seen dozens of people were banned for “EULA Violation” (Yeah the GM does not even say that you were banned because of RMT). Oh that includes me.

How would you know "dozens of people" are banned unless you are part of a group that attracts banning?

Quote:
Many of them made a petition of course, and as I count, there are about at least 40% of them were eventually unbanned with apologize from the GM.

Again. CCP does not release or discuss who get's banned let alone why. So the figure of 40% you quote suggests you ARE part of a group that attracts banning.

I've been playing almost 3 years. I run 7 accounts. I have NEVER been banned nor threatened with a ban. I mine solo Hulks some days, I mission frequently, I kill and steal stuff, blow up POS's - you know, all the good bits.

So wtf are YOU doing?

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2011-09-26 22:58:20 UTC
Oh an RMT thead. My bad, didnt read too far.

I do wonder what these innocent people manage to do that gets them banned for RMT.
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#12 - 2011-09-26 23:08:38 UTC  |  Edited by: non judgement
If CCP kicked off everyone who bought isk from someone else with money. It sure would solve the problem pretty quick. You'd think.


The only way to get isk is via plex and you can only get plex 2 ways: buying plex from someone else, who bought it or buying a gtc and converting it into plex.

If you didn't do anything wrong like buy isk from someone else, why would CCP ban your account? It doesn't make any sense.
Simetraz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-09-26 23:14:15 UTC
Just out of curiousity did you buy a character recently.

I only ask cause it appears to be the common connection, at least for those that post about banning on the forums.

EVERYBODY KNOWS
Kogh Ayon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2011-09-26 23:16:36 UTC
non judgement wrote:
If you didn't do anything wrong like buy isk from someone else, why would CCP ban your account? It doesn't make any sense.

If they did things wrong like buy isk from someone else, why would CCP apologize for the mistake and unban the accounts? It doesn't make any sense


The Apostle wrote:
Again. CCP does not release or discuss who get's banned let alone why. So the figure of 40% you quote suggests you ARE part of a group that attracts banning.

I've been playing almost 3 years. I run 7 accounts. I have NEVER been banned nor threatened with a ban. I mine solo Hulks some days, I mission frequently, I kill and steal stuff, blow up POS's - you know, all the good bits.

So wtf are YOU doing?


If you have NEVER been robbed so that means the robber does not exists, and people who get robbed are "attracting robbery"

ExcellentLol
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
#15 - 2011-09-26 23:28:10 UTC
Kogh Ayon wrote:


As my two years experience in EVE, I have seen dozens of people were banned for “EULA Violation” (Yeah the GM does not even say that you were banned because of RMT). Oh that includes me.


In my three years playing, I have seen zero players banned for EULA violation / RMT.

IMO, I think you need to find a better class of players to hang out with.

KB

Dum Spiro Spero
Gregor Palter
#16 - 2011-09-26 23:28:17 UTC
I have played since 2004, I've had numerous accounts and many high isk volume transactions between them (5+ bil isn't rare at all), even to freshly made accounts. Not once have I been banned or was there an investigation called. None I've played with (that I was in active contact with) has ever been banned or had his accounts put on hold while I was around to have heard of it. Many of them indulged in "dubious acts" morale wise resulting in them gaining big sums of isk through various unclear channels.

If you get flagged you probably did something wrong, changes of you being "collateral damage" in someone else's mess is ofcourse always an option but as Malcanis stated, put up or shut up; ask for an open DEV/GM investigation or don't post about it on the forums.

Excuses are the refuge of the weak.

The Apostle
Doomheim
#17 - 2011-09-26 23:58:20 UTC
Quote:
Quote:
The Apostle wrote:
Again. CCP does not release or discuss who get's banned let alone why. So the figure of 40% you quote suggests you ARE part of a group that attracts banning.

I've been playing almost 3 years. I run 7 accounts. I have NEVER been banned nor threatened with a ban. I mine solo Hulks some days, I mission frequently, I kill and steal stuff, blow up POS's - you know, all the good bits.

So wtf are YOU doing?

If you have NEVER been robbed so that means the robber does not exists, and people who get robbed are "attracting robbery"

Despite the fact that your logic is benign, No.

But I do know that if "innocent people" hang out with robbers, when crimes occur and an investigation ensues, your name will pop up too - with the appropriate stereotyping.

You do know that getting "unbanned" is not being exonerated, it just means there wasn't enough to prove it without doubt. I bet if your name comes up again (with whatever it was) you will be gone. Permanently.

And I take exception to the fact that you did NOT explain WHERE you are able to quote ban/unban figures! HOW did you come by such figures if you're "not associated"?

As I suggested, you ARE involved or have personal knowledge and links to people who ARE doing (whatever it is).

Stop playing victim.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Kogh Ayon
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2011-09-27 00:11:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Kogh Ayon
The Apostle wrote:

You do know that getting "unbanned" is not being exonerated, it just means there wasn't enough to prove it without doubt. I bet if your name comes up again (with whatever it was) you will be gone. Permanentl..


In you country the court will probably sentence people when they do not have enough evidence that you can come with such logic. I bet you live in somewhere like the north korea.

The Apostle wrote:

And I take exception to the fact that you did NOT explain WHERE you are able to quote ban/unban figures! HOW did you come by such figures if you're "not associated"?

Do you know that some kids broke 3 windows in the bus station besides your home?
Sure?
Congratulations! you are "associated".


Gregor Palter wrote:
I have played since 2004, I've had numerous accounts and many high isk volume transactions between them (5+ bil isn't rare at all), even to freshly made accounts. Not once have I been banned or was there an investigation called. None I've played with (that I was in active contact with) has ever been banned or had his accounts put on hold while I was around to have heard of it. Many of them indulged in "dubious acts" morale wise resulting in them gaining big sums of isk through various unclear channels.

If you get flagged you probably did something wrong, changes of you being "collateral damage" in someone else's mess is ofcourse always an option but as Malcanis stated, put up or shut up; ask for an open DEV/GM investigation or don't post about it on the forums.

So what could be the purpose for the open investigation? I haven't seen anyone did this in the forum. Could you please point me an example?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#19 - 2011-09-27 00:14:51 UTC
It'd be really funny if the number 40% was 2/5 people XD

The Drake is a Lie
The Apostle
Doomheim
#20 - 2011-09-27 00:31:36 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Kogh Ayon wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

You do know that getting "unbanned" is not being exonerated, it just means there wasn't enough to prove it without doubt. I bet if your name comes up again (with whatever it was) you will be gone. Permanentl..


In you country the court will probably sentence people when they do not have enough evidence that you can come with such logic. I bet you live in somewhere like the north korea.

The Apostle wrote:

And I take exception to the fact that you did NOT explain WHERE you are able to quote ban/unban figures! HOW did you come by such figures if you're "not associated"?

Do you know that some kids broke 3 windows in the bus station besides your home?
Sure?
Congratulations! you are "associated".


Firstly, I live in Australia. Our laws are actually more liberal than say the US.

North Korea. Indeed. Shocked

But you're arguing that you/your mates susequent "unbanning" proves CCP made a "mistake". No. What it does do is prove that CCP is being fair and giving you potentially "a second chance".

And you missed my point on this. Being "unbanned" does not mean innocent. It means they couldn't pin enough on you to make it "official". There are countless examples of ACTUAL criminals being freed through lack of evidence. It does not mean they are or were ever innocent.

Conversely, innocent people do go to jail because there WAS enough circumstantial evidence (strangely enough). Our system of justice has always been to let 10 criminals go free than jail 1 innocent man. So you are always granted the "benefit of the doubt" first and foremost.

But for you, a second (eve lightly suspected) offense (of whatever it was) is likely to incur greater penalty as the need to prove "innocence" per se is needed less.

Agreed, guilty by association is NOT guilt (and nor should it be), it just increases the likelihood that you are. People generally flock to like-minded. Hence, drug-users often hang aroung with drug-users, robbers hang around robbers and so-on. Any law-enforcement will tell you that the best tool in crime prevention is the contact list of the person caught.

As for rock throwers breaking windows. Well. If you watched and did nothing you are by law, technically, an accomplice.

You draw your own conclusions.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
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