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New dev blog: Team Security - Now with 100% more Anti-RMT

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Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#381 - 2012-04-04 09:48:48 UTC
CCP Sreegs & Team Security,

congrats for one of the best dev blogs I've ever read, happiness through justice <3

Keep up the great work, this is something that every legit EVE player around the world appreciates. Thanks!

.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#382 - 2012-04-04 10:04:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Grikath wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Learn to understand what others write.


Vaerah, why don't you take your own advice, or your meds, or preferably both, and stop beating the dead dog..
It's getting squishy.

Sreegs has answered your incessant questioning, no make that whining, with more grace and patience than you deserve, and answered your "concern" to the best of his ability and without giving actual methods away other than that while the flagging/tracking system is at least partly automated, each case/cluster is individually handled to ensure the Knife is properly Twisted.

The fact that his answer is not to your liking falls under HTFU.
From where I'm sitting you are simply trying to get him to admit you are a Special Case and are ...."Safe", or have him stumble over some of your verbal diarhhea and make a remark you can later claim as "proof" that you have been Woefully Done Wrong.

Sreegs does not speculate, does not comment on hypothetical cases other than "we'll deal with it if the situation crops up", and will never give you what you seem to desire.


Too bad you don't know anything about me and how I got slowly tortured by CCP for months in the past already nor that the cases I bring in have precise names and situations behind them (and yes, I contacted the customer support with no results ever). For once I find a CCP employee who is willing to reply, to prove he's alive and breathing and so I ask him what I can.
If all the CCP employees were like CCP Sreegs I would never have posted anything.

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CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#383 - 2012-04-04 10:09:07 UTC
I wasn't going to butt in on this good discussion. But since it was requested, hi!

In a few weeks, once we have more data and pretty graphs, we'll make a numbers blog. So look forward to that. Smile

Just a random dude in Team Security.
Savage Creampuff
Vivid Entertainment Group
#384 - 2012-04-04 10:14:18 UTC
liking the stillman :)

thanks very much sreegs, stillman, and co. you should get raises and fewer days off.
sreegs: patience of a ******* saint. :mindblown:
i really want vaerah's stuff
i'm hopeful but not optimistic
Padme Amidala Naberrie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#385 - 2012-04-04 10:17:41 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Too bad you don't know anything about me and how I got slowly tortured by CCP for months in the past already nor that the cases I bring in have precise names and situations behind them (and yes, I contacted the customer support with no results ever). For once I find a CCP employee who is willing to reply, to prove he's alive and breathing and so I ask him what I can.
If all the CCP employees were like CCP Sreegs I would never have posted anything.


All we know is that you have been whining incessantly asking for something you have been told - repeatedly - in this thread that you are not going to get.

PAN
YellowRaven
The Goatation
#386 - 2012-04-04 10:21:35 UTC
Hopefully more will buy PLEX from CCP now which if combined with other actions as promised in the fanfest related specifically with the PLEX itself,will make PLEX cheaper, thus accounts living on PLEX will have other game options than surviving.Like pvping more risking more play even more.Getting involved more.It also makes mining and ratting without bots meaningfull.At last it was about time for CCP to take the most obvious action to isk inflation than lower bounties and rewards.
Lanasak
Doomheim
#387 - 2012-04-04 10:21:43 UTC
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:


Too bad you don't know anything about me and how I got slowly tortured by CCP for months in the past already nor that the cases I bring in have precise names and situations behind them (and yes, I contacted the customer support with no results ever). For once I find a CCP employee who is willing to reply, to prove he's alive and breathing and so I ask him what I can.
If all the CCP employees were like CCP Sreegs I would never have posted anything.


All we know is that you have been whining incessantly asking for something you have been told - repeatedly - in this thread that you are not going to get.

PAN




it's actually miscommunication but it's entertaining
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#388 - 2012-04-04 10:27:35 UTC
Artyom Hunter wrote:
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Nemesis Factor wrote:
I tend to really lose faith in humanity when the most forum active Dev in CCP catches so much **** from players.

I find it really hard to grasp why anyone would be made nervous by that blog. Have some faith that they are trying to catch bots, not harass players. If you are nervous based simply on reading that blog, your probably doing something shady.

Kudos to the security team, BTW.


You too would get nervous if suddenly what you are playing EvE for since years, suddenly became a suspicious activity to be watched closely.

Read my signature:

Collateral holding / 3rd party service => have to swap tens of billions worth of stuff all the time. Being a trusted collateral holder / 3rd party service in EvE is extremely hard as it involves total trust.
Suddenly the hardest achievement in EvE - takes years to become trusted to hold Titans on behalf of 3rd parties - becomes a potential banhammer trigger.

Investing => again, something done for years. Putting tens of billions in the hands of other players *in EvE none the less* with the hope to see them back after 1+ months. Risky enough? No, now the likes of you consider it "something shady".

Charity => again, something done for enough time to be showcased at Fanfest 2011. Yet, how do I choose how to NOT get a donation off a RMTer and be royally screwed over?


Now, all of the above would not be an issue if CCP - like most other MMO companies - would reply to petitions within 1 day. But no, they take up to 3 weeks and then you lose all your credibility you patiently earned in game, you lose all your POS jobs, you lose the POS as well (as it'll go offline) and you will NOT be reimbursed. Also, as posted everywhere time after time, there's NO sanctioned way to prove CCP you were not involved in something, therefore bar few exceptions you'll never get cleared your ban. You'll go from trusted service to purple letter felon with no recourse, no hope, no coming back.




Actually, as much as I dislike RMTers, This guy has a point. In my early EVE days i'd often run around in Couster helping random noobs by doing l3 Missions with them and giving them ISK so that they might actually get the fullgame, especially if I knew them IRL (So I'd eventually have more people to shoot at). Sure i'd only give them like 10m or so each to get them their first cruiser, but if charity makes me an evil RMTing scum bucket then it might be a bit too harsh.

Furthermore, with ingame PLEX prices costing around 500m a pop, It is difficult for PLEX reliant players to get back on their feet after extende periods away from the game, and may need loans from Corpmates because they don't have the means to get 500m isk before their account runs out. E.G Someone a know IRL was away from the game for about a month because he was hospitalized for a bone infection, and he has been having a little bit of trouble with overnight checkups and what not reducing the amount of time he has had to make money for PLEX. He is sometimes forced to take loans from corpmates/me to help his accounts get going (which is always paysback mind you). So how will the system/ security be able to tell between a 500m PLEX loan and a 500m RMT transaction?


A transaction is not just a transaction.. it is a transaction with a Known RMTer then the banning begins.. (I believe) The reason there has been a delay RMT trading bans was to track the web of people involved from the few RMT people who were found.


Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#389 - 2012-04-04 10:41:44 UTC
Keep up the good work.

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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#390 - 2012-04-04 10:51:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Padme Amidala Naberrie wrote:

All we know is that you have been whining incessantly asking for something you have been told - repeatedly - in this thread that you are not going to get.



See I am but an internet spaceships player but I took extreme measures to safeguard my charity donors so that their donations would not be totally lost even if I die in RL, even if multiple people scammed. I call it due diligence.

I am caring *that much* for my customers even if they are but other internet anonymous. I'd wish to see some safeguards and pre-emptive tools being given to actual real customers (us the players) so that we can take a CCP certified bookkeeping with proof CCP will readily accept (and not depending on weather and random GM humor). Not to be hostage of whatever random event could happen.

Edit: example: add a preferences checkbox to be able to auto-refuse incoming RMT isk (i.e. flagged account), one checkbox to refuse accepting former banned people, and one to be unable to give money / trade with somebody investigated for RMT.


Gevlin wrote:

A transaction is not just a transaction.. it is a transaction with a Known RMTer then the banning begins.. (I believe) The reason there has been a delay RMT trading bans was to track the web of people involved from the few RMT people who were found.


I brought a practical case where he can have indirect transactions with unknown RMTer and get in all sorts of troubles. IF you get to talk with the correct GM and IF he feels helpful that day and IF he'll accept your book keeping records then you will be fine indeed. But the IFs are a flimsy defense.

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saiy'an
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#391 - 2012-04-04 11:03:47 UTC
hello i just read this devblog, am kinda confused is the only legit plex directly from CCP, does this mean the ones you can buy on the market (ingame) is illegal since the sellers may have bought them with RMT isk.

how are we to know if the plex we are buying from this market is legal?
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#392 - 2012-04-04 11:09:53 UTC
saiy'an wrote:
hello i just read this devblog, am kinda confused is the only legit plex directly from CCP, does this mean the ones you can buy on the market (ingame) is illegal since the sellers may have bought them with RMT isk.

how are we to know if the plex we are buying from this market is legal?


CCP GM who's name I can't be arsed to look up wrote:

A short answer to questions about what is/isn't ok for ETC/PLEX acquisition would be:

Buying ETC from official resellers - Ok
Converting an ETC to 2 PLEX - Ok
Selling an ETC through the secure method - Ok
Buying PLEX through Account Management - Ok
Buying and Selling PLEX in game via the Market and Contracts - Ok
Buying PLEX from other Websites - Not Allowed
Padme Amidala Naberrie
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#393 - 2012-04-04 11:13:36 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Editited out the same old drivel being repeated - again.


And still you keep on harping that CCP somehow owe it to you to offer you a check for an activity that they never sanctioned.

One of the things that people want in this game is a player driven sandbox.

Well, matey, you have it.

Just like there is no fallback, guarantee or safety net with ransoms, renting, market and contract scams, market manipulation and all the player introduced sandbox elements it's the same with loaning. While falling victim to any of these may not result in a ban they do run the risk of my work over several years of playing the game being destroyed.

And so it is with offering 3rd party services and making loans.

You added it - and by you I mean the players that introduced and then took advantage of it before you start getting pedantic on me - and it's up to you to accept the risks involved.

The answer is rather simple. If you don't want to risk being banned then don't lend money.

You lend money you accept the risk.

PAN
saiy'an
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#394 - 2012-04-04 11:17:44 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
saiy'an wrote:
hello i just read this devblog, am kinda confused is the only legit plex directly from CCP, does this mean the ones you can buy on the market (ingame) is illegal since the sellers may have bought them with RMT isk.

how are we to know if the plex we are buying from this market is legal?


CCP GM who's name I can't be arsed to look up wrote:

A short answer to questions about what is/isn't ok for ETC/PLEX acquisition would be:

Buying ETC from official resellers - Ok
Converting an ETC to 2 PLEX - Ok
Selling an ETC through the secure method - Ok
Buying PLEX through Account Management - Ok
Buying and Selling PLEX in game via the Market and Contracts - Ok
Buying PLEX from other Websites - Not Allowed



thankyou
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#395 - 2012-04-04 11:50:03 UTC
Was reading through this thread and a thought occurred to me about the system possibly flagging me for this reason :

I run DED sites with a friend and if we get good loot one of us sells it on the market and then split the proceeds. Sometimes we split before we sell the loot because we know its market value and know that its a fast seller. For example in the last couple of days we have gotten two B-Type Invulnerability fields selling for around 900m on contracts atm. Split would be around 500m each because of the OPE and other stuff that drops, so basically it will be a 500m transaction appearing in my journal. Will these transactions pop up as a flashing red light on CCP Sreeg's desktop?
This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.  Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#396 - 2012-04-04 11:50:59 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:


PLEX are only for snitches.


I have solid information that CCP Sunset and CCP Guard were selling RMT Quafe in fanfest. CCP Punkturis rigged the delivery courier interface with some sort of macro program and CCP Navigator was running cloaking device to keep entire project under the radar. Rumor is that CCP Soundwave was the mastermind behind this scam and that it benefited the group with tens of billions of free isk. Please take a look and don't forget to send me a plex for telling you all this!

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Koby Botick
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#397 - 2012-04-04 11:56:56 UTC
About ensuring legitimate emails can be distinguished from people trying to phish:

CCP Sreegs wrote:

I'll look into this. I hadn't thought of it actually and I think it's a good idea. Unfortunately we don't own The Internet so we can't stop people from sending mails. We're working on the problem but there's no really easy solution given the technology involved.


There is a very effective and very easy way to do it. Have every player set a personal keyword on their account. Send this keyword along with every official mail:

From: eve
To: player

.... stuff ....

Your personal keyword is: "Sreegs" (if you don't see your personally set keyword here, then the mail is not from us but from some baaaad guys! See this link for more information about this feature....)

...


There are basically 2 attack vectors to this:
a) hack your account db where this information is stored. But then we're all ****** anyway
b) hack the recipients system so you can read out a previously received official mail and get the keyword. However if you can do this, you probably can also just install a keylogger in the first place.
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#398 - 2012-04-04 12:04:40 UTC
i'm still waiting to see the response for my post, number 325, in this thread. i'm not trying to nit-pick but i don't see why the rules/punishments not being clearly outlined bothers so few. i don't do things against the rules but if isk is loaned there is a 'slight risk' of action taken against the lender. again, isk being not returned is acceptable ... in fact kind of a duh...

will isk that has been loaned and paid back be still stripped?

will the lender's account ever be banned for a loan or are you looking to go after people with a repeated history?

if i have to worry about how i play this game in regards actions that are 100% legal in game actions(loaning a buddy money... unless the sandbox is closed....) or even starting a business doing it then it makes me not want to play.
Enuen Ravenseye
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#399 - 2012-04-04 12:12:10 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
before I moonwalk off into the sunset.


Video, or it didn't happen!


P.S. Great job on the crackdown.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#400 - 2012-04-04 12:16:45 UTC
J3ssica Alba wrote:
Was reading through this thread and a thought occurred to me about the system possibly flagging me for this reason :

I run DED sites with a friend and if we get good loot one of us sells it on the market and then split the proceeds. Sometimes we split before we sell the loot because we know its market value and know that its a fast seller. For example in the last couple of days we have gotten two B-Type Invulnerability fields selling for around 900m on contracts atm. Split would be around 500m each because of the OPE and other stuff that drops, so basically it will be a 500m transaction appearing in my journal. Will these transactions pop up as a flashing red light on CCP Sreeg's desktop?


If neither of you are involved in any ISk-selling activity, then it's very unlikely.

My tl;dr inferrence of Sreegs various answers is:-

Transferring 500M to a friend -> fine

Transferring 500M to a friend who, unknown to you, is involved in RMT activity -> flag

Transferring 500M to a friend who, unknown to you, is involved in RMT activity, with no obvious reason like sharing the profits of that B-type -> danger

Transferring 5,000M to a friend who, "unknown to you", is involved in RMT activity, with no obvious reason like sharing the profits of that B-type -> BAN HAMMAR!!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016