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Covert Ops miner
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Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2012-04-02 19:13:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Joe Risalo
Naomi Leafblower wrote:
Oh my Gosh.

That would definately change things. Prices have become rediculous and we are owned by high innactive mega alliances. Its not fair. This would be a great idea. I will quit if they add an non dock/jump aggression timer to logistic ships


lololololololol

hahahahahaha!!!!

So, logistics, which are one of the most effective ships in game expecially for their price, and can dramatically effect the outcome of a fight to the point where the team with proper logistics can potentially void any incoming damage should be free to dock and jump at any time? Even if they're currently in a fight????lolololol!!!!!

They should be locked out the same way everyone else gets locked out because they are a very important part of the fight and allowing them to dock and undock freely means they can dock and repair, and come back out as if they weren't ever in a fight. Expecially when it comes to shield logistics. All they have to do is dock up and come out with full shields and cap at no costs.

If you're repping a target with aggression, then you should have aggression as well, thus be unable to dock until a certain about of time after you stop aggressing, the same as everyone else.

Now, as far as the cloaky hulk... It sounds good till you apply the math that others in here have already applied. Now, if you took that hulk and reduced it's yield, gave it a cloak, and gave it a good sized hold and/or ore hold so that it could prolong mining on it's own without needed a hauler, then sure, 1hr in null sec could be pretty profitable.
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#22 - 2012-04-02 20:05:14 UTC  |  Edited by: HoleySheet1
We will get Big alliance guys in here trying to shoot down this idea...see above. Its an excellent idea and will control prices in eve. My friend just doesnt want to lose his billions per month profit. Greed people. We deserve our share.
The logi changes are earth shattering. As i said people who care will have multiple logi and other will just quit. Nano or cloaky logi is not the answer. I can rep my logi...how about you? Doesnt change things for me. Itll just make logi pilots quit en masse...2+2
NOTE : cov ops mining ventures would be group activities like incursions...u need cov ops miner, cloaky haulers and scouts. And a black ops guy of course, but they could always come up with some specialized cov ops orca(capable of black ops portal generation). Theres so many springboards from this idea. This black ops orca could have its ship bay removed for a black ops portal generator for example and be nerfed 8 ways from sunday.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#23 - 2012-04-02 21:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: FloppieTheBanjoClown
HoleySheet1 wrote:
crane loads of arkonor or mercoxit

Somehing tells me if you're shipping it in Cranes you won't be pulling enough material to impact the market. Also, the added cost of fuel to move it out of deep nullsec where you find quiet systems in which to mine would drive your price up (or margin down) to the point it would be difficult to make money.

Get a wormhole, mine in it.

edit: My first wormhole experience was a bunch of us stumbling into a C2 wormhole and ninja mining with retrievers and a bestower running ore. We were utter noobs, there were only four of us, and we did quite a bit of ark and bistot. Jump fuel not required.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
The Hamilton
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2012-04-02 21:58:47 UTC
+1
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#25 - 2012-04-02 22:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: HoleySheet1
Being able to mine your own mega, zydrine and morphite would be good for budding producers however. Maybe make use of high sec pos's instead of whatever they can be used for now???! If prices are so high an increase in production would be beneficial to all eve . After all, u still need 0.0 and low sec for moon mining and good PI. I dont know how the ore compression stuff works but that could be a feature. It probably would need a support ship however. Like the black ops portal generating orca i mentioned, thats ship bay could be replaced with a black ops drive. Jump fuel is cheap, thats not an issue.
All HI SEC producers have to buy the 0.0 stuff, from the exclusive alliances. This makes it not profitable and not done really except t1 mods by noobs, which is pointless. We could change this.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#26 - 2012-04-02 22:24:12 UTC
HoleySheet1 wrote:
I dont know how the ore compression stuff works but that could be a feature.

I find this rather telling.

HoleySheet1 wrote:
All HI SEC producers have to buy the 0.0 stuff, from the exclusive alliances. This makes it not profitable and not done really except t1 mods by noobs, which is pointless. We could change this.

ABC ores are available in wormholes, which are far more accessible to highsec than busing a mining fleet to 0.0 and back. It's entirely feasible to locate an empty C2 that has a highsec static, put several hulks and an orca in it (along with a covops scanner) and mine for hours. You just have to know how to exercise precautions in w-space. If you collapse the wormhole before everything is out, scan down the new one. I've done this myself, and came out with an Orca full of Arkonor and Bistot. You can also run missions and recycle the T0-T2 loot to get rare minerals.

The point is, the alliances do NOT have such a stranglehold on ore that we need a whole new class of ship to enable us to ninja mine in their territory. There are plenty of places to get those ores now. You just aren't exploiting them.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#27 - 2012-04-02 22:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: HoleySheet1
I dont like wormholes. And lots of people feel the same as I. A tack on which requires the player to put up with several nuisances (wormholes). Can you even bring an orca through a c2 or smaller without it collapsing on you? IDK.Ninja mining wormholes is chance im sure....A probe ship is always required....thats a pain. Oh gosh, wh's just give me headaches. I kill stuff. I'd like to be able to kill more stuff.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2012-04-03 04:16:25 UTC
Again, the idea is cool, but its just not economically viable, and if it were to be, it would be much more attractive to just join one of the 0.0 care bear corps/alliances.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#29 - 2012-04-03 14:26:24 UTC
HoleySheet1 wrote:
I dont like wormholes. And lots of people feel the same as I. A tack on which requires the player to put up with several nuisances (wormholes). Can you even bring an orca through a c2 or smaller without it collapsing on you? IDK.Ninja mining wormholes is chance im sure....A probe ship is always required....thats a pain. Oh gosh, wh's just give me headaches. I kill stuff. I'd like to be able to kill more stuff.

Wormholes are one of the best added features to the game. They create a completely new environment in which supercaps cannot exist, capitals must be built in system, and it's *dangerous* if you don't know what you're doing. And yes, you can bring an Orca through a C2. I've made runs for POS fuel in an Orca; going out and coming back didn't even come close to slamming the wormhole shut.

You think daytripping a wormhole is tedious yet here you are asking for a low-yield, covops hulk so that you can daytrip into null using a Blops bus and hauling ore in transport ships back. A scanning frigate in the SMA of an orca is trouble but jump fuel isn't.

You're proposing something that is completely untenable. You'll get better results farming missions for salvage than you will trying to ninja mine nullsec.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#30 - 2012-04-03 14:28:26 UTC
MushroomMushroom wrote:
Again, the idea is cool, but its just not economically viable, and if it were to be, it would be much more attractive to just join one of the 0.0 care bear corps/alliances.

This. There are dozens of small alliances running mining operations in their sov systems. The OP seems unwilling to give up highsec for dangerous space, though, and wants a solution that allows them to reap the rewards of nullsec without the risk and effort that comes with securing it.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#31 - 2012-04-04 00:03:16 UTC
Making it viable is something ccp could...they made the game. But the fact remains that high sec producers need to buy all the 0.0 stuff. Make that stuff more accessible so prices go down. They have meetings about these things to increease revenue and the gaming experience. I built a high sec pos, with big ideas....i ended up doing invention for a while and barely paying for the pos fuel. I tried moon mining reactions solo..that was some kewl stuff.

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#32 - 2012-04-04 00:05:31 UTC
I want one, but I'd probably never use it for the purpose the OP intended because it would rock too hard in other roles.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Zi'Boo
Zi'Corp
#33 - 2012-04-04 02:55:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Zi'Boo
If you really want to do ninja mining the option is already there:
- Pack some hulks and a small (or larger) pos into a Rorqual,
- jump Rorqual,
- setup pos,
- either use Rorq clone facility to clone jump the miners in or just use a bunch of cov ops frigates and a black ops brigde
- commence mining and possibly compressing to save Rorq space.

Once you're done pack everything back into the rorqual and jump back.

The 2 main problems you may have here are:
- cyno jammers
- notifications about the pos being deployed.

Since cyno jammers are quite expensive they will be only deployed in strategic systems, so this shouldn't be a problem, unless you want to ninja mine in a alliance staging or station system.

With the notifications - you may want to petition CCP to delay them a bit or something.

Your much bigger problem will be securing the system so that your mining fleet can mine in peace especially with no intel channels.

Edit:
One thing a cov-ops, blockade runner like, miner could be useful for would be the new moon goo belts that CCP suggested during fan fest.
Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-04-04 03:45:08 UTC
The idea has merit from the standpoint of ninja mining. CovOps with 1 stripper and limited cargo, or maybe a covetor that can cloak, but cannot fit strip miners. Specifically get in, min one high value rock, warp out.

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
HoleySheet1
Deep-Fried Prawns with Lemon
#35 - 2012-04-04 05:07:09 UTC
Any cov ops mining venture would require cyno scout, portal generator miners and haulers....You cant do it alone

Killing your ships and pods since 2008. Killboards don't lie, Don't get mad, get better.
MushroomMushroom
State War Academy
Caldari State
#36 - 2012-04-04 06:13:52 UTC
Bob Niac wrote:
The idea has merit from the standpoint of ninja mining. CovOps with 1 stripper and limited cargo, or maybe a covetor that can cloak, but cannot fit strip miners. Specifically get in, min one high value rock, warp out.



0.0 rocks are just not valuable enough to justify doing that. The only way this could possibly work is if the value of 0.0 ores increased dramatically in relation to highsec ores, but that would be a huge windfall to established 0.0 residents. And if a miner is willing to deal with the covops hassle and risk, then they would probably just join a 0.0 corp before going the covops route.
MICH00000
Jovian Gaurdians
#37 - 2012-04-04 08:03:10 UTC
Massive +1
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2012-04-04 09:07:50 UTC
Find a wormhole with a grav site, watch D scan, have 1 guy in your fleet have a probe launcher (or get more organized, bring an orca, have it store your probe launchers until they are needed).

vs

Make several jumps using cynos and expensive black ops (which don't contirbute to mining) into alliance space, where they will see you show up in local and it will be very obvious you are there, have a complicated logistics chain (real logistics, not RR boats) with hauler ships making many jumps in and out, to mine with something that pulls in less ore than a Hulk, just to get ore that goes for about 2x as much

FYI, there are sources of megacyte and zydrine in high sec (not just from drone and module drops, I've seen jaspet in high sec grav sites)


What the alliances control, is moon goo and most of the Ice.
You can't get moon goo and ice in WH space.

WH space is a refuge for small corps to stake out a place of their own. Rather than this complicated idea that has so many chances for disaster, that nobody would risk it for the pitiful rewards - I say add ice to WH grav sites, and allow moon mining in WHs.

Of course, it sounds like CCP may be fixing the alliance's stranglehold on moon goo, and there is already a supply of ice in high sec, so I see no major problems.

Also, the OP sounds childish, I'm guessing he's 10.
SGT FUNYOUN
Elysian Space Navy - 1st Fleet
#39 - 2012-04-04 09:11:37 UTC  |  Edited by: SGT FUNYOUN
Check the "commonly proposed" thread. This has been suggested before. And shot down rather heavily.

I kind of like the idea, it just doesn't seem too practical.
Bob Niac
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2012-04-05 00:50:45 UTC
here's an idea: add a high slot. nothing special, just an empty high

[u]I <3 Logistics:[/u] Pilot of all  T2 logi and my shiny Archon [deceased.] Also a Chimera which may or may not be horrid. I don't make games, I play them. I get that ppl are passionate about change. I post here to plant seeds. You see your idea as is? Holy **** you win! So let's post, and see what the DEVs and our peers use.
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