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New dev blog: Team Security - Now with 100% more Anti-RMT

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Shaera Taam
Khanid Prime Free Irregulars
#301 - 2012-04-03 23:50:33 UTC
oh hell yeah!

bring on the dead bots!

too bad we cant call dibs on the salvage, lol!

Thus Spake the Frigate Goddess!
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#302 - 2012-04-03 23:51:30 UTC
Good job banning bots, though. It's just a pity this wasn't done before the whole bot-fueled supercap armsrace.
Woo Glin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#303 - 2012-04-03 23:55:27 UTC
What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game.
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#304 - 2012-04-03 23:58:36 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Good job banning bots, though. It's just a pity this wasn't done before the whole bot-fueled supercap armsrace.

I'm actually going to be a bit surprised if any nullsec alliances are seriously impacted by this, despite the rumors that have run rampant for years.

But if the rumors are *true* it might open up some nice opportunities.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Lt Pizi
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#305 - 2012-04-04 00:00:09 UTC
Woo Glin wrote:
What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game.


Shocked

Goon Tears are best tears, because they're 25% alcohol by volume!
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#306 - 2012-04-04 00:00:19 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.

Just cyan.


I don't disagree. We also don't support loan systems. This is why if I'm correct you have a subforum as you stated for loans and the punishment for defaulting on said loan is player justice not an in-game action from CCP. We didn't design a loan system. Maybe it's something we should do, maybe not, the point is that yourself and others are making a big to-do about

A) Something that we haven't had to do anything about yet because nobody's been snagged wrongly to date
B) Something that is a player-run mechanic.

I can't provide validation around something we didn't create.


i just want to know about the loan thing.... that troubles me.

will bans be implemented for some1 who loans money to some1 who is a RMT or if the isk is just gone.
isk gone i'm fine with, account actions of any kind....not so much. then the "knowing" part comes in.... you are putting the cart before the horse ... so to speak. you never answered my original question which was this exactly. again... i'm not looking to get around the rules but you never even made it clear. loans happen.... its part of any game, supported or not. eve is supposed to be a sand box. so now i can't make loans cause its not in the game structure? of course not. this is ridiculous. so again

-tldr version-

Can an account get banned for making a loan to an account involved in RMT, knowningly or not?
the loaned iskies lost is a risk of playing the game... but are there other actions beyond that?

- /tldr-

answer those 2 questions and 90% of the crap u have been getting will go away. from what i can see ccp did well on this...except for the transparency part....not about how the individuals are caught (that would be plain stupid). but definitively the rules of what is allowed (hypothetical or not... the elusiveness seems to be because nobody knows exactly what is going on) as well as the punishments need to be known. that's just a huge DUH
Cpt Arareb
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#307 - 2012-04-04 00:02:15 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Lt Pizi wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
General Abrams wrote:
Awesome Work! I certainly hope the Bans include Mission botters!


They do


market bots ?


Yes them too


here goes Jita localP
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#308 - 2012-04-04 00:02:41 UTC
Woo Glin wrote:
What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game.


ugh

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Z2ZzzzZ2Z
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#309 - 2012-04-04 00:04:02 UTC
Woo Glin wrote:
What about taking the isk that is on banned accounts or removed due to botting and using it to reimburse people who where scammed? I was promised a spot in Pandemic Legion if I paid a fee of 500M and now I barely have enough to replace my scythe and can't mine because of an afk cloacker which is a different issue but it basically keeps me from enjoying the game.


best troll ever or... go back to wow idiot
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#310 - 2012-04-04 00:06:19 UTC
Z2ZzzzZ2Z wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.

Just cyan.


I don't disagree. We also don't support loan systems. This is why if I'm correct you have a subforum as you stated for loans and the punishment for defaulting on said loan is player justice not an in-game action from CCP. We didn't design a loan system. Maybe it's something we should do, maybe not, the point is that yourself and others are making a big to-do about

A) Something that we haven't had to do anything about yet because nobody's been snagged wrongly to date
B) Something that is a player-run mechanic.

I can't provide validation around something we didn't create.


i just want to know about the loan thing.... that troubles me.

will bans be implemented for some1 who loans money to some1 who is a RMT or if the isk is just gone.
isk gone i'm fine with, account actions of any kind....not so much. then the "knowing" part comes in.... you are putting the cart before the horse ... so to speak. you never answered my original question which was this exactly. again... i'm not looking to get around the rules but you never even made it clear. loans happen.... its part of any game, supported or not. eve is supposed to be a sand box. so now i can't make loans cause its not in the game structure? of course not. this is ridiculous. so again

-tldr version-

Can an account get banned for making a loan to an account involved in RMT, knowningly or not?
the loaned iskies lost is a risk of playing the game... but are there other actions beyond that?

- /tldr-

answer those 2 questions and 90% of the crap u have been getting will go away. from what i can see ccp did well on this...except for the transparency part....not about how the individuals are caught (that would be plain stupid). but definitively the rules of what is allowed (hypothetical or not... the elusiveness seems to be because nobody knows exactly what is going on) as well as the punishments need to be known. that's just a huge DUH


We do not nor will we ever secure a loan. From our perspective if you make a loan you may as well be giving it away regardless of whether the guy's an rmter or not.

If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.

In other words "loan" can mean a lot of things and I can't judge a case that hasn't happened as I've been saying. The case itself would be judged on its own merits and likely no two would be the same. You will NOT get a blanket answer from me on this question other than "We do not secure loans ever".

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Sturmwolke
#311 - 2012-04-04 00:10:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Can we expect quarterly updates on RMT & bots (ala QEN)? (mainly for visibility purposes).
Whats your comment on isk laundering schemes?
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#312 - 2012-04-04 00:13:33 UTC
Sturmwolke wrote:
Can we expect quarterly updates on RMT & bots (ala QEN)? (mainly for visibility purposes).
Whats your comment of isk laundering schemes?


You can expect regular reports. You've gotten two blogs out of me in a month plus fanfest. What we'll look to do in the least is have Stillman show results, graphs, numbers and statistics regularly and I'll probably moonwalk away until something changes. I'll work on schedules with him in the morning as I would like to commit to having things out regularly.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Recoil Happens
Debatable Results
#313 - 2012-04-04 00:14:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Recoil Happens
Yeaah, BAY BEE !!

Rip some new fecal spreading orifices for those lying, cheating, "I dunno know who my daddy is?!" perps.

This game will do perfectly well without them, never relent, never cut them slack, Death Sentences to all cheating accounts!!

I have not been more happy with you, CCP, since Unholy Rage. Just don't let this be a one off grandstand like that was and have business as usual a few hours later.

Make them understand, that you will take the mins from the super caps they reprocess to hide them from being confiscated.

Use the RICO act outline from the United States to crack down on organizations involved in criminal activity. Take the one piece of trit from all their rookie ships. Seize their slaverhounds. Drop them off in an asteroid belt and make them walk home then ban 'em!!

Go after your GTC resellers who also are doing RMT - get cyber sniffing bloodhounds to find any links between the GTC resellers with the RMT sites and go back in history as far as you like.

Institute safeguards to prevent those banned from re-birthing themselves as innocents. Do as other game companies have done by including machine specific ID points and put it into the EULA, so if cheaters want to re-birth themselves, they will have to just about replace their entire computer.

Bad seeds need to fall to the ground and rot.

N E V E R G I V E U P !! The people who are NOT trying to screw your company are behind you.
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#314 - 2012-04-04 00:18:37 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:

If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.


First of all I apologize for having been so suspicious, the "customer service" made me jaded about EvE enough that I quit over it in the past.

Now on the question: what does "flagged" mean? Is it a ban? Or half ban? Or you go in some black list? Or wach list?

EvE Online portal | EvE markets tutorials
cyndrogen
The Greatest Corp in the Universe
#315 - 2012-04-04 00:20:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyndrogen
I am 110% against BOTS and RMT farmers etc..... however I would REALLY like a serious answer to this question.

The reason BOTS exist is because a game mechanic exists where no human intelligence is required to complete the task. A BOT is capable of performing a game task much better then a human because this is actually a GAME DESIGN FLAW.

I hate to say it but botting exists because the activity of mining ore and ice is brainless, requiers no skills and can be automated.

Several people have made good suggestions on how to improve the game and make it more fun while making it harder for botting to occur, yet here we are banning accounts.You would not need to pay a security team a ton of REAL money if you actually use that money to fix the game mechanics.

Which begs the question, is it cheaper to pay a security team money to ban botters instead of fixing the actual game mechanics?

Every day in every way I improve my skills and get better.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#316 - 2012-04-04 00:21:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Ganthrithor
CCP Sreegs wrote:

We do not nor will we ever secure a loan. From our perspective if you make a loan you may as well be giving it away regardless of whether the guy's an rmter or not.

If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.

In other words "loan" can mean a lot of things and I can't judge a case that hasn't happened as I've been saying. The case itself would be judged on its own merits and likely no two would be the same. You will NOT get a blanket answer from me on this question other than "We do not secure loans ever".


This already sounds a lot better than the "unwittingly loan isk to RMTer, get permabanned" thing everyone thought was going on.

I think I see what you meant now when you said "CCP doesn't secure your loans." People (ok, maybe I speak for myself here) aren't worried about losing the loaned isk, they're worried about "hey I loaned a guy isk, now all my accounts are perma'd." If you're accidentally flagged and you can explain the situation to a GM and get the ban reversed, that's not nearly as big of a deal. As you said, any capital we hand over to loan-seekers comes with the risk of not getting it back.
Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#317 - 2012-04-04 00:22:23 UTC
CCP Sreegs wrote:
Neither RMT nor bot-related activity have any place in New Eden any longer and the security team is willing to play chicken as long as it takes to get that message across.


I love the work you're doing on this and look forward to seeing the long term effects in the game.

Back in love with CCP again!
Potamus Jenkins
eXceed Inc.
Plucky Adventurers
#318 - 2012-04-04 00:23:14 UTC
loving this post


whiners:

"I COULD BE BANNED FOR RECEIVING RMT'D ISK"

CCP : "YOU WONT BE BANNED YOU MAY JUST LOSE THE RMT'D MONEY


WHINERS : "BUT ILL BE BANNED?!?!"

CCP : "YOU WONT GET BANNED JUST MONEY REMOVED


WHINERS : "ILL BE BANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNED..."
CCP Sreegs
CCP Retirement Home
#319 - 2012-04-04 00:27:18 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
CCP Sreegs wrote:

If the guy's an RMTer you do run a slight risk of being flagged but it's a discussion we'd have to have when all the pieces came together.


First of all I apologize for having been so suspicious, the "customer service" made me jaded about EvE enough that I quit over it in the past.

Now on the question: what does "flagged" mean? Is it a ban? Or half ban? Or you go in some black list? Or wach list?


That just means activity has occurred that we're going to perform some action on. That action would depend on the activity at the time.

"Sreegs has juuust edged out Soundwave as my favourite dev." - Meita Way 2012
Imigo Montoya
BreadFleet
Triglavian Outlaws and Sobornost Troika
#320 - 2012-04-04 00:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Imigo Montoya
cyndrogen wrote:
I am 110% against BOTS and RMT farmers etc..... however I would REALLY like a serious answer to this question.

The reason BOTS exist is because a game mechanic exists where no human intelligence is required to complete the task. A BOT is capable of performing a game task much better then a human because this is actually a GAME DESIGN FLAW.

I hate to say it but botting exists because the activity of mining ore and ice is brainless, requiers no skills and can be automated.

Several people have made good suggestions on how to improve the game and make it more fun while making it harder for botting to occur, yet here we are banning accounts.You would not need to pay a security team a ton of REAL money if you actually use that money to fix the game mechanics.

Which begs the question, is it cheaper to pay a security team money to ban botters instead of fixing the actual game mechanics?


To quote Raph Koster's Laws of Online World Design (http://www.raphkoster.com/gaming/laws.shtml) : "No matter what you do, someone is going to automate the process of playing your world."

Pretty much all PvE can be automated, it's not necessarily entirely an issue with game mechanics. I know people who mine lots.