Market Discussions

According to the most recent devblog giving a loan to an RMTer can result in both loss of isk and banning. I'm guessing what happened here is Player A gives loan to player B, Account C (with tainted isk) is used to repay player A. Result, CCP takes away all the isk Player A got from player B through account C and gives player A, revokes player A's character transfer privileges and gives player A a (presumably temporary ban).

So that means either one of two things:
1. Loans will have to go through the forums and be publically posted to avoid CCP issues or;
2. Public posting won't provide any protection, greatly increasing the risks in getting involved in the player loan market.

You're an idiot.

The "loan" is just an attempt to disguise the fact that they are providing the Isk Sellers with the ISK to SELL. It's not a loan, both sides know that. It works both ways too.

1) I purchase isk from dodgyeveisk.com and their in-game teller totallynotan rmtalt sends me some isk with the reason of "200B loan @ 3% for 90 days" or whatever.

2) I plunder my bot accounts for large piles of isk and because of leet connections get on the bat-phone to the owner of dodgyeveisk.com to sell him some Isk because I need another container of cheetohs. I also use the "this is totally a loan and not a dodgy rmt transfer" reason.


THAT is what they are talking about. The goings on in here are quite irrelevent.

Whilst that is true, I would still doubt that CCP are going to be looking in here for anything suspicious.

Anybody recalls the Cosmoray case?

He was trusted. SUPER trusted.
He was upstanding. SUPER upstanding. Not even winking at pirates or something like Bad Bobby did.
He posted everything here in public and on the forums.

Yet he tangentially ended up trading something with an RMTer (without knowing it).

At the same time one alt of mine held collateral with his alt, in a corp of his. That was actually a favor of him to me: a relatively unknown new 3rd party guy being accepted into the super trusted MD guy collateral holding corp with collateral voting powers.

CCP rained HELL on everyone around and probably this is the inner reason why Cosmoray later on scammed. They probably confiscated him ISK or whatever.

This just to say how easy is to stay out of "anything suspicious".

He was one of the "I need 100B => everybody throws him ISK in 10 minutes" guys, known, official, everything.
Yet it was not enough.

And I have more cases and I have litigated with completely blind and deaf CCP customer service so much, that was another of the reasons I quit EvE about 1 year ago.

They give us the promise of a sandbox but not the tools to defend ourself, not the tools to deal with certified clean investees and then they officially state (see the Security Devblog for specific answers to me about it) it's our burden to deal with clean people.


Just imagine this: Chribba being banned and purple letter flagged because he SURELY has dealt with some RMTed supercapital in the past, he transacted too many of them to not have statistically ended in such a case.

CCP has on many occasions stated that loans and other forms of out of game arrangements are not
officially a part of their game and that they do not have to take them into consideration regarding actions
they take regarding the game.

To me, a relatively new player of the game, it seems pretty clear that you loan isk to strangers, provide collateral
holding services to strangers, run a bank, or in any other way accept large amounts of isk from people you don't
know - means that you do so at your own risk.

Just the way I read the party manifesto

Yours
Lady Godwynn

I couldn't find a link referencing what I said above, but CCP Sreegs just posted this in his thread:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1072271#post1072271



So, until CCP changes that stance, should you still provide loans?


Yours
Lady Godwynn

From the sound of things, banning people who have simply received dirty isk isn't the plan. Why would they bother subtracting the isk and putting people into the negative if they're just going to up and ban the account?

Clearly there is a line drawn somewhere where certain offenses get you banned and others just bring the wrath to your wallet.

My guess:

Sell isk via RMT: Banned
Buy isk via RMT: Wallet gets negged for the amount of isk illegally gained.
Receive isk from someone who purchased it via RMT: I'm not sure, this probably depends on if they suspect that you're involved or were just selling some goods via a contract or something and are actually innocent.

Is there any info posted on this somewhere? I didn't see any specifics in the video that cover this. There must be more to it than just banning if they are bothering to seize assets and isk. Why bother hitting their wallet if they can never log in again?

Edit:
Of course, I could totally off and the buyers also get banned then the isk, wherever it has ended up, gets subtracted from someone's wallet. But then, that seems odd since it could easily be penalizing completely innocent players who legitmately sold something they worked hard to build/obtain in the first place.

Yes, the needs of ten nerds playing make-believe spaceships finance should outweigh efforts to save the entire game from botting and rmt.

1) Nothing has actually happened.
2) If you don't feel safe enough and worry something might happen, stop doing it.

Nobody cares about this ridiculous and infinitesimal subculture that has developed here, and nobody ever will.

Actually, everyone who cares should unsub in protest.

While I appreciate the enthusiastic optimism of your reply, it does not address the fact that all those tasked at reimbursing ships (see Goonswarm reimburser post in the security thread) and everybody who sells something could be affected. There's more than ten nerds in EvE who sell capital BPOs and similar.

ROFL

I'm sure there is great concern that alliance SRPs will be used as a cover for RMT...80m at a time...all within one alliance.

Get a grip.

The issue is that a "loan system" is actually a VERY good cover for people transferring huge sums of ISK between nominal strangers for nothing in return.

Again, nothing has actually happened, and if you're truly concerned about getting falsely flagged for dealing with RMTers, then stop exchanging huge sums of ISK with strangers. Very simple.