EVE Information Portal

not really

the problem is that ever since CCP started sending newbies "PLEX are a great way to get ISK, buy some now!" emails, RMT sites have put the direct sale of ISK on the backburner and are instead emphasizing the sale of PLEX in their advertisements - because now everybody knows that buying PLEX to get some ISK is legit....

Back in the day the division was easy - GTCs are legit and everything else is bad RMT.
There was no way a RMT site could have gotten their fingers on working GTCs without CCP seeing their cut.

Now CCP sells PLEX which is good.
And RMT sites sell PLEX which is bad.

Every time CCP advertises PLEX as legal RMT, "bad" RMT sites profit because they sell the very same product as CCP (which was not possible with GTCs) and the "... but only if you buy it from eveonline.com" gets swept under the rug.

Anyone wanting to combat RMT has to deal with this issue sooner or later - and while Sreegs cannot solve it on his own (guess bizdev are happy that they can sell 2 PLEX for more $$ than 1 GTC and won't let go off that easily) he should at least be very aware of the problem.

If he himself has lost track of legal vs illegal RMT, how is he supposed to prevent Joe Rookie from stumbling into the same trap?
Oh but he isn't supposed to prevent that? his job only involves technical detection means and infrequent appeals to the playerbase to please change their behavior? he doesn't care about anything outside that narrow field of vision?

well, you only solve a problem on the scale of RMT in EVE by taking a coordinated & holistic approach across departments.
Not by saying "oh but this is the job of game design", "and this is due to business development", "and that's the work of GMs", ...
If that is the case then get game design, Business Development and GMs on one table and solve the problem together.

CCP Sreegs will always end up as the spokesperson and player contact for any sort of bad behavior, no matter whether he thinks it falls into his responsibility or not.

edit: directionless post lacks direction, I'm too tired to write concisely but I hope the gist of it is clear

Screegs,

Does ISBoxer count as a botting program to get banned? Someone was saying that that particular program was allowed by EVE but I can't see how any third party program that runs the game for you would be allowed. Please confirm?

How long till Chribba and Grendell get both banned for having contracted RMTed supercapitals with their 3rd party services?

They transacted so many it's statistically impossible not one of them came from RMT yet they have the same tools I have (that is ZERO) to make sure who you deal with is not tied to RMT.

Ugh this forum is literally the worst (or the best, depending on how you see it)-- press post, no posting happens.

Anyway, tl;dp: Given that RMTers will lie about why they want ISK, and perspective loans are usually evaluated based on the loanee's ability to repay the loan (their wealth, repayment track record, etc), how the hell are we supposed to magically know who is and who isn't an RMTer when we go to loan people ISK?

Serious question. I'm part of an alliance of 5k plus players (you may have heard of it). We have a whole sub-forum dedicated to player contracts (largely loans). I have a pile of spacebux of my own and loan some of that out to people periodically based on whether or not I think that person can and will pay me back. How is this supposed to continue to be a thing if you can find yourself permabanned not for botting or RMTing but merely for loaning isk to ONE CHARACTER of someone who does RMT (which could involve any of the accounts that person has on the books, including characters that may or may not be in your alliance at all)?

You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.

Just cyan.

You can't seriously expect people to KNOW whether or not someone is involved in RMT in a game full of anonymous sociopaths.

Just cyan.

e: For clarification, is it loaning to anyone involved in RMT that will get you f##ked or just ISK sellers? I imagine there are exponentially fewer sellers than buyers.

Sending ISK to somebody and (hopefully) have it back + interests after 30 days IS inside game mechanics.

Else why can we send ISK to somebody else?

With your reasoning ANY ISK exchange can be with a RMTer and subject to ban.

And you guess what?

They get ban, no ability to post. No ability to petition but use a craptastic ancient general contact form that is used by thousands guys sending spam or asking for general EvE info.

After WEEKS of being daily stolen subscription money a GM replies them that their logs show nothing and closes the petition. They can reopen a new petition and escalate it and get a "the former GM was right, now GTFO" reply. Be happy, now they will have purple letter, unsellable account and be shunned by everybody and no single way to ever be heard again.

Sure this is not your concern, but it's us who have to bear with this bullsht even in tangential cases.

When I will be banned just because I did what people on the Market Discussion forum do since years (EvE finance) or because I did what Chribba does (holding ships and collateral for third parties) or just because I got paid with RMT money for a BPO I sold (notice, no loan here), then at least I'll be able to wait for the unban and then link these posts as a "hey I was right" reminder.

Meager consolation, eh?

Great job Sreegs!

I'm amused by your resilience in dealing with these whiners...

Dont cheat= you'll be alright.

Afraid about loans/reimbursement/something else= stop doing till it will be safe again; maybe you could do it till now just because of bots,rmters :)