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Scarlet Letters and Botters

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Powers Sa
#441 - 2012-04-03 20:50:32 UTC
Cpt Syrinx wrote:
There SHOULD be some indication that action has been taken against a character's account on grounds of game-destructive behavior such as botting, and it SHOULD be visible to all.

Why?
Not for reasons of revenge.
Not for reasons of inciting shame.
Not in a feeble attempt to change the perpetrator's behavior for the better.
I do not care about these people.

I care about me. Also, to a lesser extent (this is EVE after all), about the other people that are not risking damage to this game for their own betterment.

I feel that we 'normal' players have a justifiable entitlement to the information required to shield ourselves from these people: I want the ability to avoid business with them, I want the ability to avoid conflict with them. I want the information required to utterly and completely avoid ALL INTERACTION with these people. If I were crazy enough to feel tainted by their very presence in the same system as myself, I would still be entitled to the information required to decide to get the hell out.

I highly disagree. The motivating factor for everyone I've talked to, (real life non-goon friends), is to name and shame people. Basically they want to hold it over people's heads. They want tears. They want to use it as leverage in forums arguments.

You are playing CCP's game. You aren't really entitled to more information than they feel like giving.

CCP knows who is destroying the game, and they in turn are destroying those people without mercy. When I say without mercy, I mean they are hitting everybody. I found out a guy that loaned me isk (I repaid), is actually a dirty RMT/Isk seller. (I've only been playing 5months) Do I get a scarlet letter for transacting him? I hope not.

CCP Sreegs is doing an excellent job to break habits by going after ISK and Assets.

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Kismeteer
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#442 - 2012-04-03 21:03:42 UTC
An interesting idea might be to add a botting corp to their corp history. That way, it's easy to spot, hopefully easy to implement from your perspective. Also easy to figure out how long that transfer ban lasts.

I will also point out that people come and leave eve frequently, I think it's a bad idea to say 'never' on any of this ****. Just because people's lives and minds change, give them a reason to get back involved in the game. You want to punish them on a more permanent way rather than a permaban? SP loss is awesome for that. No way they can recover that.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#443 - 2012-04-03 21:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
i personally belive its a good idea to have them flagged as botters. Big smile
It helps other players identify this people for possible future infrigments aswell as it puts pressure on the botter to maintain a straight game sence.
Also it creates drama that can lead into conflict because of it. Not to mention all the funny comments to all those botters that will be passed on. It should have similar text like in a bounty but say "Botter" or pehaps a small "broken heart" image on it TwistedTwisted, that way people will always ask him where did he get the broken heart in his avatar from!Big smile
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#444 - 2012-04-03 21:08:00 UTC
Not a half bad idea. Instead of banning bots, place all bots in a single corp that they are unable to leave. Allow players to wardec said corp and handle it themselves.

I still like the idea of putting bounties on bots ships so they act like rats when it comes to income. Lets go bot hunting and make some isk! Whooo!

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#445 - 2012-04-03 21:18:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
rofl! put the botters in a corp they cant leave! omg that would be helarious.....I can see that corp been wardecked 365 days a year just for pure laughs TwistedTwistedTwisted Best idea, but you got to put a "broken heart" logo on their avatar character picture in the corner, so that everybody asks them about it! XDDDD
shi no tenshi
#446 - 2012-04-03 21:18:44 UTC
Sorry for being a noob. But whats a Bot? ie what am i looking for to know what a bot is?. Sorry for off topic but had to know
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#447 - 2012-04-03 21:21:29 UTC
shi no tenshi wrote:
Sorry for being a noob. But whats a Bot? ie what am i looking for to know what a bot is?. Sorry for off topic but had to know

people use third party hacks to cheat in game. It automatically mines or rats or market/trade hack.
Wille Sanara
No Shoosting
#448 - 2012-04-03 21:27:11 UTC
Ban them all, we want our sandbox without botters and RMT! Thats pretty much what I wanted to say...
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#449 - 2012-04-03 21:27:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Katja Faith
I personally see zero point in doing so, much in the same way that banning the disgraced lawyer was: he has multiple toons across multiple accounts, so he just continues his game. Same with botters. Irrevocably deleting the entire account (not just barring the single toon) has more of an effect, albeit a minor one. But will that stop someone in the Drone Regions?

Hardly.
Bibosikus
Air
#450 - 2012-04-03 21:32:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Bibosikus
Botting is against the EULA.

Ban the accounts. FFS, they've had enough warnings by now both in-game and out.

Then name them so we can at least take them off the "possible war targets" contact lists..

EDIT: Or - Putting them in a flagged corp of their own is a nice idea - as long as, somehow, you arrange that they can't use cloaks...

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Dangus Kahn
State War Academy
Caldari State
#451 - 2012-04-03 21:53:52 UTC
Why not just give kill rights with the scarlet letter? So anybody can pop bots without repercussion. It may lighten the work load for CCP because the player in question would have to end his subscription and nobody would buy his toon.
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
#452 - 2012-04-03 21:56:04 UTC
To me, that would look very unprofessional. If you find out someone is botting, ban him, and be done with it. The only reason there is for you (CCP) to let them keep playing is because they pay you money, if there are other reasons, please enlighten me. Assume there are two sides here, players just want them gone, but I bet in some ways CCP doesn't. Otherwise they wouldn't get second chances and they wouldn't still be here, would they? I think it's really bad to try to please both sides, or whatever you'd try to accomplish by this.

Why make a problem of what to do with the bots when the real problem is detecting them?
Grikath
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#453 - 2012-04-03 22:07:41 UTC
I don't think the scarlet letter is needed..

As far as I can see RMT-ers and botters end up with permabans or utterly unplayable accounts. This essentially removes those accounts from the game altogether, so added measures are really superfluous.

Highsec isn't "Safe".  Neither is it a playground for bullies and bottomfeeders. So stop complaining and start playing the game already.
Moolti
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#454 - 2012-04-03 22:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Moolti
I'm torn on this.

I really do like the idea of scarlet letters. Putting the offenders up on a stackode, and throwing tomatoes. I'd like to know someone is a known offender to not invite them to a corp.

However, I'm fearful that people may assume the lack of a scarlet letter is some sort of positive or clearance that they are above board. Also if it is true the recidivism rate is as low as portrayed, it should only be for a 2nd or 3rd offense. *edited to add: and if someone offends 3 times they should be perma banned instead of a scarlet letter
Conventia Underking
Underking Family
Khimi Harar
#455 - 2012-04-03 22:14:35 UTC
I haven't read the entire thread, so I'm not sure if this idea has been brought up or not. So, here goes:

What if botters got a flag that was only visible through their API? That way, it's not public, but if for any reason they try to join a corp or get audited by someone where there is an existing expectation of providing API access, then this would act as a deterrent without preventing someone from turning into a good guy. It may also make sense to have it be available for corp directors so they could see if their members were botters.

It would be important to include a timestamp of the last instance of botting, which would allow people to benefit from "remaining clean".

This way, the only disincentive to "turning good" is that you can't join a corp or get public funding without people knowing you botted, but at the same time, they could continue playing alone or with people who ultimately, don't care about botting.

For God; Salvation is Imperative, but not at the cost of our Humanity!

The Vitoc Problem - Conventia Underking
ParagonFree
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#456 - 2012-04-03 22:18:10 UTC
yes
Bawsk
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#457 - 2012-04-03 22:27:49 UTC
I would allow char's with scarlet letters into my corp......... So I could awox them at the first possible chance Twisted


I am for the naming and shaming on the first offense with some additional turns.
Make the scarlet letter (visable on character portrait) last for only 6 months
Unless (and this makes the assumption that most botters plex up their accounts)
They update their account to a minimum 3 month paid subscription by creditcard, then the
scarlet letter goes away.

-The ones that can be turned into goodguys will start paying for their subscription
like the average player. The hardcore botters will not, and continue to plex up.

-CCP gets more money to fight botters (hopefully you can direct this cash towards your department Pirate)

-Creditcard info becomes attached to the account, possibly allowing you to see if they have any other
accounts, and possibly track them better should they "relapse"

2nd offense: scarlet letter for a year, attachment to their api details, and no way to remove it.
on another note

The interdiction nullifier on the botting Tengu seems to be the bane of the bott hunter lately. Anyone
have a way of catching these bastards?


and p.s. Make a twiter account CCP Sreegs, so we can follow you :)
InstinctE17
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#458 - 2012-04-03 22:36:01 UTC
Killer Gandry wrote:
There are playergroups in the EVE Universe who wish in no way to be identified alongside botters.
They want no dealings with them since a botter doesn't play the game. a program runs ertain keystrokes.

Also people who want to buy a character from the character bazaar would like to know if the character they buy in any way got flagged or even temporary banned because of botting.
It's like buying a house or car. You want to know a bit of history which could possebly affect your purchase.

I for one would be shocked if I were to purchase a character on the forums and then be forced in any way to explain to other people everytime that I wasn't the owner of said character which was caught with his hands in the cookiejar at some point.

If a character should go up for sale the potential buyer should be informed about a history which could affect him in the future if he were to aquire said character.

As for ingame policing. I personally think it's CCP's job to keep an eye on previously temp banned botters as to see if they return to their unlawfull ways of botting. This isn't something the playerbase should get into unless you would like to start off a witchhunt.
We all know how well the public responds to convicted criminals.
We also know how a large part of the EVE playerbase would respond by not letting a flagged botter get into the game as intended again.


Edit:
Being an oldbee I am very rusted in my ways.
Since not long ago character transfers of flagged people isn't possible anymore so that reason has no validation anymore.
However the rest in my post stays as it is.



This is one of the reasons i have said many times that when we buy a char, we should have the option to change the name and wipe the corp history. since a new buyer has no ties to the name or history of said char thier is no reason to pay for his mis steps over and over. of course the potential for abuse is great here. however i stand by my point in this matter.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#459 - 2012-04-03 22:44:17 UTC
InstinctE17 wrote:



This is one of the reasons i have said many times that when we buy a char, we should have the option to change the name and wipe the corp history. since a new buyer has no ties to the name or history of said char thier is no reason to pay for his mis steps over and over. of course the potential for abuse is great here. however i stand by my point in this matter.


i disagree cos if i was an offender i can do a ficticious buy of character just to clean it. The potential for abuse its even higher. This is without even concidering thievery and the many other reasons why would sanatise it.P
wettowelreactor
WettCorp
#460 - 2012-04-03 22:47:53 UTC
Instead of making things public have the NPC's deal with it. Charge known botters more for insurance, clones, station servies, ect... A cheaters tax if you will. This acts as a deterrent without the consequences of a public tagging. After a period of good behavior these fees coud be removed.