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scrap metal reprocessing

Author
Admiral Valeris
Nkulunkulu
#1 - 2012-04-01 21:25:46 UTC
Hey folks, just wonderin what im missing here, I was reprocessing some pax amarria and the 'we take' column actually rose in quantity not dropped, when i trained scrap metal reproc to lvl 1.

Any clues as to whats goin on appreciated. thx
Adunh Slavy
#2 - 2012-04-01 21:37:23 UTC
Did you go to a different station? If so, it could be your standings.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Admiral Valeris
Nkulunkulu
#3 - 2012-04-01 22:07:32 UTC
nope was jita 4-4 both times within 10mins of each other, i checked reprocess values b4 and after training the skill
Caha Evano
Victory of Samothrace
#4 - 2012-04-01 22:12:05 UTC
"We take" is the "Tax" the owners of the station take from you, not the waste from recycling. So yes your standing at that station is worse than the one you originally tried at. The caveat being that "We Take" is based on the amount of recoverable minerals, so if you remained at the same station, "We Take" will increase because the amount of recoverable minerals increased. Scrap Metal reprocessing reduces waste, ie "unrecoverable," when you click "get quote."
Admiral Valeris
Nkulunkulu
#5 - 2012-04-01 22:17:57 UTC
ok thanks for that, can see what ya mean by the theoretical 'recoverable' minerals increasing, so therefore the tax increases. still kinda sucks though because there was zero 'unrecoverable' anyways.

So by training the skill i shot myself in the foot! lol dont seem right man! training should improve things!!
Caha Evano
Victory of Samothrace
#6 - 2012-04-01 22:21:24 UTC
Admiral Valeris wrote:
ok thanks for that, can see what ya mean by the theoretical 'recoverable' minerals increasing, so therefore the tax increases. still kinda sucks though because there was zero 'unrecoverable' anyways.

So by training the skill i shot myself in the foot! lol dont seem right man! training should improve things!!


You should recylce at a station where you have effective standing > 7.0 that way you will losse none to "We Take" and at perfect refine you will have 0 "unrecoverable"
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#7 - 2012-04-01 22:51:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
Admiral Valeris wrote:
ok thanks for that, can see what ya mean by the theoretical 'recoverable' minerals increasing, so therefore the tax increases. still kinda sucks though because there was zero 'unrecoverable' anyways.

So by training the skill i shot myself in the foot! lol dont seem right man! training should improve things!!

Unrecoverable = loss because of low skill or poor facilities
We Take = loss because of standing

Changes in "We Take" had nothing to do with your skill training.
Admiral Valeris
Nkulunkulu
#8 - 2012-04-01 23:24:54 UTC
well how do you explain the change in 'we take' then? i didnt even undock checked 10 mins b4 skill finished training and then just after. the values in we take were different.

I think Caha Evano's point makes sense though unless i hear a better theory :) thanks for the help
Rengerel en Distel
#9 - 2012-04-02 00:03:51 UTC
Admiral Valeris wrote:
well how do you explain the change in 'we take' then? i didnt even undock checked 10 mins b4 skill finished training and then just after. the values in we take were different.

I think Caha Evano's point makes sense though unless i hear a better theory :) thanks for the help


Caha's point was that if the first time, you reprocessed something and got 100 and lost 5, then next time got 200 and lost 10, it's the same thing. You only lost more because the quantity was higher.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

Kyr Evotorin
Alternative solution inc
#10 - 2012-04-02 13:17:27 UTC
In lame man's terms, you were getting taxed for the materials that you recovered via the skill being trained. and there is no way that you should see any negative effect out of the skill in question.

Getting taxed for 5% of what you save still yields the 95% profit of each material recovered via that skill... though I think this is a more confusing way to put it. My first line, i believe, should make enough sense
Salo Aldeland
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2012-04-02 13:34:47 UTC
Kyr Evotorin wrote:
In lame man's terms


What does being lame have to do with terms?
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
#12 - 2012-04-02 13:35:38 UTC
Kyr Evotorin wrote:
In lame man's terms


Kyr Evotorin wrote:
lame man's


Kyr Evotorin wrote:
lame
Quote:
man's



Graduate of the U.S. Public School System, eh?
Kyr Evotorin
Alternative solution inc
#13 - 2012-04-02 13:38:27 UTC
Sirs, I could care less... didn't want to confuse the poor fellow any fut=rther by adding in (Not sure if this is the correct sp)

But you understand what was meant, thanks for your time.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#14 - 2012-04-02 15:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Plyn
A valiant effort by the people trying to explain, but here is the real answer:

You are not taxed on the minerals that are unrecoverable.

Supposing you were getting 75% net yield before, and a tax rate of 5%:
25% goes to waste immediately.
The station owner takes 5% of the remaining 75% (.75 * .05 = .0375), in other words 3.75% of the base mineral yield.
Your final take is 100% - 25% - 3.75% = 71.25%

By reducing the waste amount, you have increased the amount of taxable minerals.

Now you are getting 80% net yield with a tax rate of 5%:
20% goes to waste immediately.
The station owner takes 5% of the remaining 80% (.80 * .05 = .04), in other words 4% of the base mineral yield.
Your final take is 100% - 20% - 4% = 76%

It is still beneficial to train the reprocessing skill, as in the first scenario you came away with a total of 71.25% of the base yield, as opposed to the second where you came away with 76% of the base yield. 76% > 71.25%

I hope this helps you understand how decreasing waste can increase the raw amount charged by the station owner. Thanks!
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#15 - 2012-04-03 14:55:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bugsy VanHalen
Admiral Valeris wrote:
Hey folks, just wonderin what im missing here, I was reprocessing some pax amarria and the 'we take' column actually rose in quantity not dropped, when i trained scrap metal reproc to lvl 1.

Any clues as to whats goin on appreciated. thx


The we take column is the station tax. It is not affected by any skills only standings with the corp owning that station.

I have standings with Caldari Navy of 7.2 and the we take is 0.0% at any Caldari Navy station(including Jita 4-4 assembly plant. However if I go to a station belonging to a corp I have lower standings with, it goes up. Same character same skills.

Besides with good refining skills you can get 100% refine reprocessing stuff at a 50% facility without scrap metal processing. It really is only needed when reprocessing at a lower yield station. For example at a 35% station even with every skill maxed and the refining implant you will only get around 98% refine.

Either your standings with Caldari Navy has dropped, or your corp standings were higher than your personal standings and corp standings with caldari navy has dropped. That is the only way your "We Take" value would increase at the same station. It had nothing to do with you training scrap metal processing.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#16 - 2012-04-03 14:57:52 UTC
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Admiral Valeris wrote:
Hey folks, just wonderin what im missing here, I was reprocessing some pax amarria and the 'we take' column actually rose in quantity not dropped, when i trained scrap metal reproc to lvl 1.

Any clues as to whats goin on appreciated. thx


The we take column is the station tax. It is not affected by any skills only standings with the corp owning that station.

I have standings with Caldari Navy of 7.2 and the we take is 0.0% at any Caldari Navy station(including Jita 4-4 assembly plant. However if I go to a station belonging to a corp I have lower standings with, it goes up. Same character same skills.

Besides with good refining skills you can get 100% refine reprocessing stuff at a 50% facility without scrap metal processing. It really is only needed when reprocessing at a lower yield station. For example at a 35% station even with every skill maxed and the refining implant you will only get around 98% refine.

OP stated in a later post that both transactions occurred at the same station.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#17 - 2012-04-03 15:51:09 UTC
Plyn wrote:
Bugsy VanHalen wrote:
Admiral Valeris wrote:
Hey folks, just wonderin what im missing here, I was reprocessing some pax amarria and the 'we take' column actually rose in quantity not dropped, when i trained scrap metal reproc to lvl 1.

Any clues as to whats goin on appreciated. thx


The we take column is the station tax. It is not affected by any skills only standings with the corp owning that station.

I have standings with Caldari Navy of 7.2 and the we take is 0.0% at any Caldari Navy station(including Jita 4-4 assembly plant. However if I go to a station belonging to a corp I have lower standings with, it goes up. Same character same skills.

Besides with good refining skills you can get 100% refine reprocessing stuff at a 50% facility without scrap metal processing. It really is only needed when reprocessing at a lower yield station. For example at a 35% station even with every skill maxed and the refining implant you will only get around 98% refine.

Either your standings with Caldari Navy has dropped, or your corp standings were higher than your personal standings and corp standings with caldari navy has dropped. That is the only way your "We Take" value would increase at the same station. It had nothing to do with you training scrap metal processing.

OP stated in a later post that both transactions occurred at the same station.

Yeah I caught that. I guess you quoted before I made the edit.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#18 - 2012-04-03 15:56:13 UTC
Sorry about that Lol Notification of your post popped up right after I logged in, so it was the first thing I looked at.

I will point out though, that the "we take" value can in fact change without the standings changing at all, as per my suggestion of what happened a couple of posts up.
Katja Faith
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-04-03 17:23:45 UTC
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:
Kyr Evotorin wrote:
In lame man's terms


Kyr Evotorin wrote:
lame man's


Kyr Evotorin wrote:
lame
Quote:
man's



Graduate of the U.S. Public School System, eh?


Thanks for making the poster's play on words evident... ;-)
Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers
#20 - 2012-04-03 17:31:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyniac
Katja Faith wrote:
Thanks for making the poster's play on words evident... ;-)


Yeah I've been limping all day long after a horse stepped on my foot... sucks to be a lame man.


But to the OP - you pay more tax because you get more stuff. Training the skill was a good thing in any case, you still get more materials than you did before.