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The tyranny of the training queue

Author
Elsbeth Taron
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-04-02 07:25:52 UTC
Haven't found a topic discussing this so thought I would.

Unlike some of themore 'interesting' people playing EVE I view it as a game, something to do when I choose and ignore also when I choose. It's meant to be for my enjoyment.

The passive training model has a major flaw in that, if the queue empties, progression in the game halts. There is no recovery from this. No harcore playing to get quickly back to where I would have been if I had logged on.

The player has paid for the gametime and as the training is time sensitive it makes sense that this time not be lost.

I have read about players being given 100k SP when PI was launched, for which a mechanism exists allowing them to assign these SP as they please.

What I propose is that, in the event the queue empties in an active account, the SP continue to accrue. When the player logs on the training time will not have been lost and can be assigned as per the mechanism that exists already.

As the points are not related to any skill in the queue, attribute bonuses cannot be factored into the speed of the accrual, but the base attribute levels are 20 so that can be assumed when adding SP to the total.

This would end this absurd (in my opinion) situation where people are forced to logon or risk their training coming to a halt.

Comments such as "put a long train skill at the end" or "get someone to log on for you" (hand out my password?!? you nuts?) don't wash. Those of us with a life can often find ourselves afk for days at a time. The proposal removes any need for this stuff.

What do you think?
Wuxi Wuxilla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-04-02 07:39:47 UTC
You want to progress in a game when you don't log in for days?
Updating the skill queue takes 2 minutes, if you can't do that maybe you just haven't earned any progress?

For skill-progress log in at most(!) once a day.
For isk-progress play as much as you want.

I don't think this needs to change.

Nerath Naaris
Pink Winged Unicorns for Peace Love and Anarchy
#3 - 2012-04-02 08:20:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerath Naaris
Such a system could be abused to at least partly bypass the disadvantages of a remap.
Also, sooner rather than later you WILL have enough skills that require a week or more to train, which should be enough for even the most infrequent player.

Je suis Paris // Köln // Brüssel // Orlando // Nice // Würzburg, München, Ansbach // Saint-Étienne-du-Rouvray

Je suis Berlin // Fort Lauderdale // London // St. Petersburg // Stockholm

Je suis [?]

Eladanus
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2012-04-02 08:22:54 UTC
It's a nice idea, and I can see your point. It would be nice to know that if youre ever called away unexpectedly that youre not losing out in-game etc.

However this is ultimately an MMO. Where most require grinding for hours to get any return, I dont think its much to ask that you log in once every few days for 2 minutes to just click a few buttons and leave.

Also see it from CCP's point of view. If people didnt have to log in to be productive there would be a higher chance of people just getting bored/stopping playing all together, which loses them customers and money. Thats the same reason you cant update the skill queue from outside the game, people would just stop playing EVE.
Eurydice Cosmos
Swords Replace Feelings
#5 - 2012-04-02 12:35:04 UTC
Quote:
This would end this absurd (in my opinion) situation where people are forced to logon or risk their training coming to a halt.


THIS JUST IN!

MMO REQUIRES YOU TO LOG IN TO THE GAME TO PROGRESS!

FILM AT ELEVEN!
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#6 - 2012-04-02 14:04:05 UTC
Just be glad that there is a queue.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Xioden Acap
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2012-04-02 17:07:28 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Just be glad that there is a queue.


Ahh yes... The good ole' days of cranking up the speakers before you went to bed and being woken up at 3am to EVEMon blasting "SKILL TRAINING COMPLETE"...
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#8 - 2012-04-02 17:26:23 UTC
I keep everybody's queue in my corp full by constantly pestering them to queue skills, even when they are out of game (e-mail, IM, etc.)

EVEmon
Aura for Android
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#9 - 2012-04-02 17:57:13 UTC
Elsbeth Taron wrote:
garbage


This is a terrible idea, others already pointed out, it takes less than 2 minutes to solve this, at most every day you would need 2 minutes.

The system is already easy/simple enough and incredibly forgiving now in comparison to before.

You probably would have gotten further suggesting an extension to the current 24 hours, rather than completely watering and dumbing down an aspect of the game so you can be lazy about the game. If you're honestly going to tell me in 2012 that you can't find an internet connection someplace to log in for 2 minutes, you've got bigger issues than a skill queue.
Jenna Nichols
Deadly Harmony
#10 - 2012-04-02 18:15:49 UTC
I would like it if you could que up more than 24 hours. Granted you can with level 4 and 5 skills being days or weeks long. But what about two week vacation, your supposed to worry about logging in to fill your skill que on vacation or extended power outage? I don't think you should earn skill points if your que is empty, but it might be nice if you could que up 7 days of skills.

Lol
Wyte Ragnarok
#11 - 2012-04-02 18:58:05 UTC
I've just gotten back after three weeks in hospital. Command Ships 5 will soon finish.
There are no issues with the current skill queue or training mechanics.
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#12 - 2012-04-02 19:15:30 UTC
Elsbeth Taron wrote:
Haven't found a topic discussing this so thought I would.

Unlike some of themore 'interesting' people playing EVE I view it as a game, something to do when I choose and ignore also when I choose. It's meant to be for my enjoyment.

Why would you progress if you can't be bothered to even log in once in a blue moon to update the queue?

I can't even imagine how upset you must have been if you had played before the skill queue even existed...
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#13 - 2012-04-02 19:52:39 UTC
Elsbeth Taron wrote:
Haven't found a topic discussing this so thought I would.



Translates to: "I can't be bothered to look anywhere else in this forum for the forty-three other threads saying this or something similar."

As much as it makes economic sense for CCP to take your money without you logging in even once, forcing players to log in from time to time is a good thing.

Also, I concur, pre-queue training was brutal, you always had some random long-as-hell skill in process that you queued up each night.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#14 - 2012-04-02 20:51:59 UTC
Outz Xacto wrote:
If you're honestly going to tell me in 2012 that you can't find an internet connection someplace to log in for 2 minutes, you've got bigger issues than a skill queue.


Pre-skill queue, I spent three months wandering around Georgia. When I was in Tbilisi, internet access wasn't too much of a problem, though it wasn't what I would call reliable. Pretty much anywhere else and I had my work cut out for me to find somewhere to swap a skill. So yes, there are circumstances where finding internet access can be a problem.

Having said that, I did manage. I think I came back with three out of four cruiser 5s trained. Even a short queue would have helped me immensely and we have that now. A longer one would have been useful.

I'm pretty torn on the issue these days. Yes, we want to make people log in. But ultimately, if they are just logging in to swap a skill here and there, does it really help the game that much? I'm not as convinced as I once was. Especially as CCP slowly ramps up system requirements, having a throw-away laptop with you at all times to pirate a connection as you're passing through a semi-major town gets harder and harder.

What's the solution? I don't know. I've been managing fine on the current skill queue, but extending it a bit wouldn't be all bad. I'm disinclined towards freely accumulating unallocated SP, even at a reduced rate. There's just way too much opportunity for abuse there.
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#15 - 2012-04-02 22:30:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Outz Xacto
Outz Xacto wrote:
2012

Zhilia Mann wrote:
Pre-skill queue


myheadisfullof.jpg

>_> Though your example ended up driving home exactly the point I was making so :P all is forgiven.

Edit: failure to quote!
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#16 - 2012-04-03 00:19:32 UTC
Alternately: Play the game longer than a month, you should have at least one skill that requires longer than your hypothetical 4-day window by that point. Hell, train BC5 for the skill change, if you're that upset about it, that's a good 20-30 depending on your map.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#17 - 2012-04-03 01:17:06 UTC
Outz Xacto wrote:
myheadisfullof.jpg

>_> Though your example ended up driving home exactly the point I was making so :P all is forgiven.

Edit: failure to quote!


Find me decent internet access in Mtskheta. I dare you.

But yes, fine, it's been a few years.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#18 - 2012-04-03 08:47:53 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Just be glad that there is a queue.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2012-04-03 08:51:58 UTC
Xioden Acap wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Just be glad that there is a queue.


Ahh yes... The good ole' days of cranking up the speakers before you went to bed and being woken up at 3am to EVEMon blasting "SKILL TRAINING COMPLETE"...



Man, I remember cycling home from work like a crazy man in my lunch break, powering up the stairs, starting Caldari Cruiser 5 and then cycling back to work like a crazy man.

Plenty of exercise but no lunch for Malcy that day Sad

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

J Kunjeh
#20 - 2012-04-03 11:57:58 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:

I'm pretty torn on the issue these days. Yes, we want to make people log in. But ultimately, if they are just logging in to swap a skill here and there, does it really help the game that much? I'm not as convinced as I once was.


You've got it all wrong. This isn't about "helping the game", it's about helping CCP's wallet. This is a way to keep people sub'd, not about getting people to log in occasionally (even though that's what CCP will tell you). And don't get me wrong, it's not a bad thing that CCP does this to ensure some people will remain sub'd, that's just business in a hyper capitalist world.

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

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