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Crime & Punishment

 
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Wardec round table

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Devore Sekk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#141 - 2012-04-02 12:48:39 UTC
Dutarro wrote:
Sensible, and doesn't even have to be a new kind of structure .. just extend the functions of the POS. Corp HQ in an NPC station would imply the low member limit, in the same way corp size is limited by the CEO's corporation skills. Changing HQ to a corp POS increases the member limit based on the tower size. If the POS goes offline or is destroyed, the corp's HQ reverts to an NPC station and they can't recruit until a new POS is up and running.


Some good ideas here. I don't know about disbanding the corp after losing a structure, because then pretty much every small corp to be wardeced would disband by the time the war is over. Do we really need to incentivize mega corps and alliances even more than they already are? And don't we want to get away from structure shoots? Shoot players, not buildings.

Personally, I am feeling zero desire or need to get into a player corp at this time. Part of it has to do with not having figured out what I want to do, which seems to be a general "failing" in EVE: you have to specialize. I was somewhat disheartened to see the latest CCP videos spending half the time talking about the player specializing right from day 1, in order to compete with players who have 8 years of SP behind them. I like mining, but don't want to do it all the time. I like exploring, but don't want to do it all the time. I like running anomalies and ratting, but not all the time. Ditto for security or courier missions, or market trading. Large, generalist corps are basically glorified chat channels, which I already have! As a bonus, you get wardeced.

I think, generally, once you figure out what you want to do the most, you want to get out of the NPC corps, because most goals are easier, or even possible, to achieve with the help of other players. But many thing don't. Providing small but meaningful bonuses to player corps is reasonable. When you are in a (proper) fleet, you are more powerful than when you are alone, not just as a group, but also individually. This makes many tasks much easier. But not others, when, for example, players would rather solo level 4 and even 5 missions, than blitz them in a fleet.

So the rewards/incentives have to be more skewed towards doing things in a player corp. Sure you can do this in an NPC corp, but it would be much easier in a player corp. Yeah, you can be wardeced, but the risk is worth it. Today, for too many things, it isn't.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#142 - 2012-04-02 13:37:02 UTC

Devore Sekk wrote:
I don't know about disbanding the corp after losing a structure, because then pretty much every small corp to be wardeced would disband by the time the war is over.


My idea was to give them 7 days after the loss of the structure to anchor a new one. Couple the idea with significant penalties for wardeccing smaller corps (as opposed to CCP's alliance-favoring propsed rules) and I think things would be fine.

The result of this would be that corporations that were consistently unable to defend their single solitary structure in highsec wouldn't last. It would be a check against shelter corps. As a protection against constant griefing, it might be feasible to build in some mechanic where the loss of a corp office automatically ends the war.

Devore Sekk wrote:
Do we really need to incentivize mega corps and alliances even more than they already are? And don't we want to get away from structure shoots? Shoot players, not buildings.


Done properly, this would give incentive to wars between more equal groups. And shooting structures is entirely optional: you don't *have* to go after their HQ, it's just a strategic option that can be used to push them into a fight, or lose their structure.

Devore Sekk wrote:
Personally, I am feeling zero desire or need to get into a player corp at this time.


I'd like to change that. i want there to be real and significant drawbacks to remaining in an NPC corporation. Like you, I'm a generalist: I do exploration, ratting, I live in wormholes, piracy...I'm even capable of fielding two hulks and an orca across my accounts. I joined The Skunkworks because I wanted to get better at PVP and found a group that I really enjoy being a part of. If you treat a corp as just a chat channel, you need to find a better corp.

Devore Sekk wrote:
So the rewards/incentives have to be more skewed towards doing things in a player corp. Sure you can do this in an NPC corp, but it would be much easier in a player corp. Yeah, you can be wardeced, but the risk is worth it. Today, for too many things, it isn't.

One idea I've been pushing around for a while is the notion of corporate missions. Each level would require more members participate in order to collect the rewards. The combat missions would have a similar feel to incursions in that anything above level 1s would need logi support and good organization. In fact I'd much rather have seen those than the current incursions, as they wouldn't allow pickup fleets and the atmosphere of shiny snobbery that many people complain about. Mining and courier missions would also be sufficiently complex that multiple players were required to complete them.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Goatfather
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#143 - 2012-04-02 18:49:09 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
When I heard that CCP was going to be addressing highsec wardecs, my first reaction was trepidation. I'm not convinced that any CCP employees actually do wardecs, or really anything to do with highsec outside of Incursions. I'm not convinced they'll do it right. And with the CEO of Eve-Uni (who couldn't be more harmful to the state of highsec PvP if he tried) getting a lot of face time with CCP right now, we knew it was time to try and put together something to let CCP know the position of the mercs and deccers in highsec.

So, at the behest of Darius III, I put the calls out to some of the most active wardec corps. We wanted to keep it short and sweet, so we limited it to about ten people. We had guys from several different crowds in the world of hisec mercenaries, "griefers," and all those who make their living through ship-on-ship PVP in high security space. These people are representative of large groups of PVPers that do not work together; in fact, their relations have been extremely adversarial and cutthroat in the past, and the many are actively at odds with each other. Many of these guys will disagree with each other just on principle, so the fact that these CEOs and directors of some of the top tier highsec corps all sat down and largely agreed on essentially every single point that was raised is not only surprising, but extremely telling of the state of the current and future gameplay in hisec.

The people in this discussion are:

Alekseyev Karrde of Noir., one of the most stable and longest-running merc corps of all time
Cannibal Kane, can flipper, mercenary, and representative of the independent solo highsec pvper
Lithalnas, director of Privateers, the group that was so OP at one point that CCP had to redesign the wardec system around their tactics
Iam Widdershins of PRONS, known for their shenanigans
Istyn of Tactical Knightmare (also representing Suddenly Ninjas)
Psychotic Monk (myself), CEO of The Skunkworks, known for their work in killing ignorant incursion runners and long-time wardeccers.
ToxicOz, CEO of Double Tap, who are one of the most effective merc corps in highsec today.
TS5P, director of The Orphanage, which needs no introduction

There were a few who couldn't make it, but were included in the discussion before and after the actual round table, and that included Zedrik Cayne, Kai86, and Istvaan Shogaatsu.

Between these players, we represent hundreds of highsec PvPers, have years and years of experience in the game and in this particular arena especially, and, most importantly, have a great deal of vested interest in highsec not just as a source of ganks, but as our home, where we hope to encourage interesting and challanging gameplay. Nobody here is advocating only things that will enable free ganks: we are looking for a challenge, and to create an environment where everyone has a fair and well-defined ability to accomplish their goals.

We had Darius III officiating. The idea was that he'd forward this to CCP, under the hope that someone would actually listen to the dudes that this most effected. I thought I would also release it to the public, since at least that way it's harder to bury and maybe gets a blue box in this thread.

Enjoy.

Warning: We swear. Me especially.

Make clicks in order to listen.



Glad to see a more formal approach.