These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Drake Is Balanced, Don't Nerf It
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Daniel L'Siata
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#41 - 2012-04-02 12:41:25 UTC
What do you mean nerf? The proposed changes make it hilariously awesome
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#42 - 2012-04-02 14:46:50 UTC
Daniel L'Siata wrote:
What do you mean nerf? The proposed changes make it hilariously awesome


A hilarious lossmail for sure.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#43 - 2012-04-02 15:34:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Malcanis wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Changing the defense bonus for an offensive bonus is not a nerf. The Drake will still be bloody good at PVE, just not capable of soloing lvl 4 missions


Which L4 missions do you think you'd not be able to solo with the new drake?


I was going by it's current performance, it tanks fine in it's current state but the DPS is lacklustre in performance, looking at in other ways the increase in DPS should more than compensate for the slight drop in tank. I should really engage brain before engaging fingers P

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Enkryption
Intergalactic Pool Boys
#44 - 2012-04-02 16:17:49 UTC
Don't forget how slow the drake is and how big its sig is. It may have one of the biggest passive tanks but its also taking the most damage and doing the lowest.
XIRUSPHERE
In Bacon We Trust
#45 - 2012-04-02 16:39:03 UTC
A nerf for the lazy and unimaginative perhaps, a buff for any tactical player and thinker most certainly. Trim the fat off this brick and put some teeth on it? Thank you can I have another.

The advantage of a bad memory is that one can enjoy the same good things for the first time several times.

One will rarely err if extreme actions be ascribed to vanity, ordinary actions to habit, and mean actions to fear.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-04-02 16:40:00 UTC
Sunviking wrote:
At the end of the day, the Drake's shield resistance bonus results in it being over-tanked for it's ship class and in combat.

Caldari ships in general lack offensive capability in PvP, so it makes sense to swap the Shield Resistance bonus for a Missile Velocity bonus to boost offense.


The drake tank has nothing to do with it's bonus or anything else about the ship itself. The flaw is that recharge is all about time vs max hp. Because of this, the two LSE it can fit not only gives it the good EHP, but then it has a great passive recharge as well. So that is the issue:

Passive recharge mechanic.

Passive recharge needs to become peak hp per second. This means if you fit two LSE like is so common on a drake, you get no extra passive recharge, just more buffer. Like passive armor. Sig penalty instead of speed and maneuverability. Back in my day of L3 missions and the like, I flew proper damage drake, not slow dps afk drake. Good launcher set, lows with PDS an overdrive and ballistic controls. Mids I had usual T1 shield resist gear, prop mod and target painter. Damage was pretty good considering the range. I never trained HAMs so I can only assume it would be even better.

Again, change passive recharge mechanics, all fixed.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Muestereate
Minions LLC
#47 - 2012-04-02 17:42:13 UTC
Nerf Gallente, they are so ugly they NEED kicked to the curb
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#48 - 2012-04-02 17:45:05 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Sunviking wrote:
At the end of the day, the Drake's shield resistance bonus results in it being over-tanked for it's ship class and in combat.

Caldari ships in general lack offensive capability in PvP, so it makes sense to swap the Shield Resistance bonus for a Missile Velocity bonus to boost offense.


The drake tank has nothing to do with it's bonus or anything else about the ship itself. The flaw is that recharge is all about time vs max hp. Because of this, the two LSE it can fit not only gives it the good EHP, but then it has a great passive recharge as well. So that is the issue:

Passive recharge mechanic.

Passive recharge needs to become peak hp per second. This means if you fit two LSE like is so common on a drake, you get no extra passive recharge, just more buffer. Like passive armor. Sig penalty instead of speed and maneuverability. Back in my day of L3 missions and the like, I flew proper damage drake, not slow dps afk drake. Good launcher set, lows with PDS an overdrive and ballistic controls. Mids I had usual T1 shield resist gear, prop mod and target painter. Damage was pretty good considering the range. I never trained HAMs so I can only assume it would be even better.

Again, change passive recharge mechanics, all fixed.


This is a genius post and I want to confirm that resistance has ZERO effect on ability to tank an alpha from an enemy fleet.

OMG not everybody uses Drakes to coast through level 3's?!?

Did I mention, GENIUS? Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#49 - 2012-04-02 17:46:32 UTC
Except that in the kind of pvp drakes are good for they rely on their buffer not their regen. This is because they can have 60k ehp buffers.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2012-04-02 17:48:19 UTC
Confirming that the proposed Drake buff is indeed a buff.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#51 - 2012-04-02 17:48:54 UTC
sig
|
V

The Drake is a Lie
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#52 - 2012-04-02 17:54:46 UTC
The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet. The drake fleet main advantage in my view was that it was lazy, just keep following one person and firing missiles so you don't have to care about range. Take the exact thing as a drake and give it guns, I doubt it would be as powerful, especially considering the sig size. They also are the most produced, making them cheap. Despite all the whining about missile nerfs, that is still a big reason they are used. At least to my view. It is the only serious advantage I see over other battlecruisers.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Rimase
#53 - 2012-04-02 17:56:16 UTC
Corina Jarr wrote:
It's not a nerf. It's not a buff. It's balance.

I like you.

Looking to join Caldari Faction Warfare corporation!
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#54 - 2012-04-02 18:00:49 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet. The drake fleet main advantage in my view was that it was lazy, just keep following one person and firing missiles so you don't have to care about range. Take the exact thing as a drake and give it guns, I doubt it would be as powerful, especially considering the sig size. They also are the most produced, making them cheap. Despite all the whining about missile nerfs, that is still a big reason they are used. At least to my view. It is the only serious advantage I see over other battlecruisers.


Let's see if you can point to another "PVP" battlecruiser that gets resistance bonuses, has 60k EHP, fires missiles, and doesn't need balancing.

That is all.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#55 - 2012-04-02 18:01:41 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet.


But you do realize that the Hellcat is a tier 3 Battleship worth about 250 M ...and the drake just a 40 M Battelcruiser?

Of course drakes lose to a hellcat-fleet - everything else would be an outrage. But the fact alone that you need a specialized battleship setup to counter a specific BC shows that there is something terribly wrong with the drake....

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#56 - 2012-04-02 18:02:53 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet.


But you do realize that the Hellcat is a tier 3 Battleship worth about 250 M ...and the drake just a 40 M Battelcruiser?

Of course drakes lose to a hellcat-fleet - everything else would be an outrage. But the fact alone that you need a specialized battleship setup to counter a specific BC shows that there is something terribly wrong with the drake....


Confirming ship size/price = victory and that bigger ships should always beat smaller ones Roll

Things are only impossible until they are not.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#57 - 2012-04-02 18:05:27 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
masternerdguy wrote:

If you nerf the drake in the way you propose it will lose its ability to do level 4 missions. It will be unable to solo pvp effectively, and HAM drake gangs will be a joke. But if you want to make only 3 races worth flying, go ahead.


Wrong, very wrong, and wrongest of all.

Any level 4 mission will be easily doable in the proposed drake, the only change will be that you'll have to fly the ship, rather than just warp in and sit there like a quadraplegic tortoise. In fact you'll be able to do missions significantly more efficiently, especially against Sansha, Blood Raider and Rogue Drone rats.

It'll be at least as effective at solo PvP as a Hurricane

A HAM NewDrake™ will be terrifyingly powerful.

Of course you know all this since you're a consisten troll, but in the interests of averting at least a few bites, I post the above.



You see that post up there? That's truth. ^ look ^ See?

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#58 - 2012-04-02 18:13:15 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet.


But you do realize that the Hellcat is a tier 3 Battleship worth about 250 M ...and the drake just a 40 M Battelcruiser?

Of course drakes lose to a hellcat-fleet - everything else would be an outrage. But the fact alone that you need a specialized battleship setup to counter a specific BC shows that there is something terribly wrong with the drake....



All you need is to break 600 dps to wear out the recharge rate and most BC's can do that easy.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#59 - 2012-04-02 18:16:21 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
Zimmy Zeta wrote:
Markus Reese wrote:
The pvp thing, I am still up in the air about that one. Sure they have the ehp, but it isn't that far off of other pvp battlecruisers. I have seen the drake fleets melt to any form of hellcat fleet.


But you do realize that the Hellcat is a tier 3 Battleship worth about 250 M ...and the drake just a 40 M Battelcruiser?

Of course drakes lose to a hellcat-fleet - everything else would be an outrage. But the fact alone that you need a specialized battleship setup to counter a specific BC shows that there is something terribly wrong with the drake....


Confirming ship size/price = victory and that bigger ships should always beat smaller ones Roll


Yes, indeed. If two fleets just stand still and duke it out (as the normal drake pilot does) the bigger ships should always win.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#60 - 2012-04-02 18:17:12 UTC
Zimmy Zeta wrote:


Yes, indeed. If two fleets just stand still and duke it out (as the normal drake pilot does) the bigger ships should always win.


Oh my. Has the community gotten this bad?

Things are only impossible until they are not.