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High sec suicide ganking is...

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Naran Eto
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-09-26 13:22:14 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Linda Shadowborn wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Thank you for the few intelligent and relevant replies. What?

First off, I spend most my time in null but i'm pretty sure you can't use bombs in high sec..


Stealth bomber bombs: no

Smartbombs: yes



Yeah nobody cares about smart bombs on this side of the conversation. Was referring to actual bombs. I like flying SBs for the bomb launcher. But you can't use it in Empire for what I assume the reason being is high sec suicide ganking. Imagine dropping 20-30 bombs outside of Jita 4-4 station during prime time.

KaarBaak wrote:

High sec seems as balanced as it possible can be in a "100% PvP" game. If anything, it's the existence of Concorde at all that breaks the sandbox immersion.

I think CCP does a pretty good job of coddling the high sec playstyle and punishing players who are playing within the realm of true sandbox immersion (highsec pirates) with the current mechanics.

CCP has no real choice in this matter, as highsec players pay the bills. Doesn't mean they have to abandon the true nature of the game entirely, though.

KB




I think there's a wee bit too much high sec in this game. The fact that you can get to all the major trading hubs without going outside of high sec is lame to me.


Having access to the trade hubs that easily is obvioulsy how the majority of the plaerbase wants it otherwisw jita would not be a trade hub, if people wanted to have the trade hub in low-sc then it would happen, everyone would up and move to a low-sec system and trade there instead, however they don't they quite happily stay in jita. It may seem lame, but it's what people want.
Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-09-26 13:22:32 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
I've never been on the receiving end but it totally breaks game immersion

Why? Surely being the captain of a ship and NOT being able to break the rules when YOU decide to is immersion breaking, no?
"Oh, we can't fire, its game mechanics" sounds a lot more ****** than "We can fire, but the police WILL murder us"
Quote:
First off I think CONCORD shouldn't be an insta death. They should be aggressive and capable NPC ships which you CAN get away from or even fight until they bring reinforcements

This was done before. It's either no kill, or assured death. Anywhere in the middle and its just a mess.
"CONCORD doesn't just insta appear anywhere and everywhere. Based on the security level (1.0-0.5) they take a certain amount of time to appear"
Already the case.
"Bubbles should be allowed in Empire so that CONCORD can actually bubble gates (perhaps the gates do it by themselves with a crime has been commited)"
And what about uninvolved parties? Can you not see how this would be used as an exploit?
Got wartargets to camp? Just spawn CONCORD and you don't even need to fit a scram.
Quote:
Also there should be variations as well within each system as to how CONCORD responds. You gank outside a station, you're pretty much going to see CONCORD in 2 seconds. You do something at an asteroid belt, you have more leeway

Given that most ganking is against miners, this would enhance the ability to gank. Dumb idea.
Quote:
Secondly, anybody who commits a crime in high sec should be banned from high sec for a period of time

They are. It's called the Global Criminal Countdown. Undock within 15mins and you're blown up. Commit enough crimes and you can't enter highsec EVER without sorting it out.
This would be a ******* stupid idea. What happens to the new player who shoots a can or his mate by accident? Banned from highsec for a month? Dumb.
Quote:
As a result high sec suicide ganking doesn't stop all together, but it makes it much more difficult and much more rare

If you've ever done any suicide ganking (as opposed to just whining about it) you'll know that sec status becomes an issue VERY VERY quickly already, making it a poor ISK source long term, due to the hassle. A handful of ganks will put you our of Amarr (1.0) and it's not many to be banned from Jita (0.9) which is why most hauler ganking happens in Niarja (0.5).
"Concerning the point about being able to fight and get away from CONCORD, what stops a powerful alliance from simply attacking and killing CONCORD in Jita and have a massive battle? CONCORD super carriers"
This works until the Goons decide that Jita needs to be a freeport P
"And with all of this in place I see no reason why we can't allow all weapons in empire (bombs anybody?) to be used"
Because I would take 20+ people in stealth bombers, and open fire on Jita 4-4 and insta-pop anything within 15km. Hint: everything there. So would everyone else.

However, all is not lost, because you come out with:
"Lastly, I think low sec should be expanded to border every region. This way moving from region to region has a bit more risk, or at least certain regions. It makes trade too easy I think. And in this way concepts such as actual escorting can be viable more so than it is now"
I agree.
Russell Casey
Doomheim
#23 - 2011-09-26 14:00:59 UTC
Like everything else in EVE, blame the players first if you're unhappy about a lack of traders falling into your lowsec gatecamp because it's the actions of the community that make the game. The risk/reward factor of lowsec is that it lets you get between trade hubs faster than going all through high sec.

It's like taking a shortcut through "the bad side of town" versus driving through a maze of suburbs. But nowadays it's more like a demiliterized zone than a bad neighborhood because everyone figured out how to tank sentry guns, sensor-boost and is always on the lookout for haulers. The traders decided that even with the occassional suicide gank, they would still make more isk taking tradiing through the longer routes in highsec.

Some still go through low, just like some people PVE there, but you rarely hear about it except when someone makes a thread claiming lowsec is pointless. It's not pointless, by the way.

Now here's the funny thing: lowsec NPC security is basically what the OP is asking for: tankable CONCORD you can run away from if it gets too dicey. And, in sort of a retro fashion, this makes lowsec a living fossil: what EVE was in the days of Moo and Zombie. People were mass-quitting back then because a handful of dedicated players sat on busy areas and shot anyone who came in just for kicks. So CCP buffed CONCORD and ganking became suicide ganking. Pirates actually had to take into consideration the consequences of their actions, making sure there was a worthwhile reason to shoot a particular target, rather than acting like WoW players roaming the first PvP zone outside the newbie area spamming AOEs.
knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#24 - 2011-09-26 14:56:03 UTC
Been suicide ganked once in 4 years. Don't have an issue with it really. Penalties need to be allot higher though. It's far to easy to get sec status back.
Satav
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2011-09-26 16:06:12 UTC
Hmm.

Let me settle this for you.

I'm a huge highsec miner, and I love suicide ganking.

(1) It controls the macro-miner population.
(2) It makes me a better player cause i have to fit my hulks well and think of strategies to avoid dying.
(3) Events like Hulkaggeddon increase mineral prices which mean for profit for me.
(4) It makes the game real and uncertain, risk of loss adds to the value.

All the in game mechanic "solutions" you've proposed would never work do to it interfering with everyone else's gameplay.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2011-09-26 16:15:07 UTC
I remember the days when CONCORD didn't exist. There was no real security anywhere. That being said though...I do strongly believe that it is far to easy to be a pirate in EvE. Being a pirate should be a harsh and almost impossible profession. Right now it is a near 0 risk 100% reward profession. Sure you lose your 200 mil ship or whatever but if you do it right you just banked a hauler full of loot worth far more.

Personally I think if you do ANYTHING regarding piracy you should be marked as a pirate for at least a week in which time ANYBODY can kill you with no reprecaution from CONCORD. Enough of this multi-level pirate crap. A pirate is a pirate.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#27 - 2011-09-26 16:17:22 UTC
Oh look, it's this thread again Straight

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#28 - 2011-09-26 16:20:29 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I remember the days when CONCORD didn't exist. There was no real security anywhere. That being said though...I do strongly believe that it is far to easy to be a pirate in EvE. Being a pirate should be a harsh and almost impossible profession. Right now it is a near 0 risk 100% reward profession. Sure you lose your 200 mil ship or whatever but if you do it right you just banked a hauler full of loot worth far more.

Personally I think if you do ANYTHING regarding piracy you should be marked as a pirate for at least a week in which time ANYBODY can kill you with no reprecaution from CONCORD. Enough of this multi-level pirate crap. A pirate is a pirate.


OK, personally I think that if your faction standing is -5.00 or lower then you should be a valid war target to members that faction with +1.00 or better. Enough of this multi-level standings crap. A military target is a military target. Being a mercenary for NPC mission agents should be a harsh and almost impossible profession. Right now it is a near 0 risk 100% reward profession.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
CCP Zymurgist
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2011-09-26 16:36:29 UTC
Moved from General Discussion.

Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us at http://support.eveonline.com/pages/petitions/createpetition.aspx
Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
#30 - 2011-09-26 16:37:05 UTC
There is a natural packing order in Eve and while I agree alts break emersion the same alts used to steal your stuff and gank you can be used to avoid getting ganked. So the mechanic helps to prevent getting ganked as well. That said I agree alts are lame but naturally when the whole eve population uses them so must you to break that advantage. Im all for putting in a one client limit and one character per accounts.. Alts and multi boxing breaks all kind of things.

The reality of Eve is that, if you don't love it like it is today, you should probobly go ahead and unsub. 
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#31 - 2011-09-26 16:58:34 UTC
…far too rare.


(To just answer the title.)
Lucy Alfrir
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#32 - 2011-09-26 17:49:07 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I remember the days when CONCORD didn't exist. There was no real security anywhere. That being said though...I do strongly believe that it is far to easy to be a pirate in EvE. Being a pirate should be a harsh and almost impossible profession. Right now it is a near 0 risk 100% reward profession. Sure you lose your 200 mil ship or whatever but if you do it right you just banked a hauler full of loot worth far more.

Personally I think if you do ANYTHING regarding piracy you should be marked as a pirate for at least a week in which time ANYBODY can kill you with no reprecaution from CONCORD. Enough of this multi-level pirate crap. A pirate is a pirate.


Hey 200 mil is a lot of ISK for a noob like me.

I think this game is too biased towards people who want to do the boring professions of mining and carrying and mission running. ie carebears.

I'm not saying that pirating shouldn't be a crime, but the punishments seem fair to me.

You might think ganking is insta-millions but it isn't there's a lot of sitting waiting for a worthwhile target, and you need some pretty high skills or a whole bunch of people who'll all shoot at once to take down things worth taking down.

If it wasn't for pirating I wouldn't play EVE, and that's true of a lot of people. So it shouldn't be an impossible profession unless you want to see half the EVE population up and leave.
Anna Lynne Larson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2011-09-26 19:14:16 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
in before...

this post is
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
...stupid.


but really i think only these two:

Seraph IX Basarab wrote:

Secondly, anybody who commits a crime in high sec should be banned from high sec for a period of time. (I don't mean literally banned you can't enter but if you try to come in you're going to get attacked by NPCs.) Say Joe pirate and his gang suicide gank a hauler. Their ships get caught by CONCORD and they die. They use their alts to scoop up loot. Good job Joe pirate. Guess what? You're now banned from entering high sec for a month with that character. As a result high sec suicide ganking doesn't stop all together, but it makes it much more difficult and much more rare.

Lastly, I think low sec should be expanded to border every region. This way moving from region to region has a bit more risk, or at least certain regions. It makes trade too easy I think. And in this way concepts such as actual escorting can be viable more so than it is now.

Just my two cents on some mechanics.



have any plausibility to them. If yo make concord anything less then insta-kill then I GUARANTEE an alliance big enough will over run a system because you're underestimating the ability of the players to pull something off like that. If they dont straight up win then they will at least succeed in making the lag of the system 5 times worse then Jita for all the concord spawns trying to fight them off

and btw CONCORD is already scaled for the sec status...0.5 suicide are much easier because of this...

Not emptyquoting.

To be fair, anyone who commits a crime in highsec is banned from highsec (except pods) for the duration of their gcc. A month is extreme for something that's accepted game mechanics.


Ironically, in a post that started out completely ******, you did have a good idea of lowsec bordering every highsec region. That would make lowsec ridiculously fun for me as a jerk who camps gates to kill the carebears coming through.
Seraph IX Basarab
Astrology Club.
Insidious.
#34 - 2011-09-26 21:26:56 UTC
Lady Go Diveher wrote:
stuff


I just think it sucks I can't drop my bombs everywhere I please. Evil

Concerning the uninvolved parties, the gates would toss up a bubble but the webs wouldn't target the random people flying through.

I understand the mechanics of the GCC, my point is I think suicide ganking should be dealt away with since to me it seems like it isn't meant to be a game mechanic or rather takes advantage of game mechanic technicalities, while at the same time violence in high sec shouldn't be a sure way to death either. I'm not really advocating lessening or enhancing PVP in high sec, simply 'shifting it.' I think that answers most of your points. Glad we found common ground concerning the expansion of low sec.


Russell Casey wrote:
Stuff


I've never camped a low sec gate before to be honest and i'm not a pirate so frankly I couldn't care less about that from the pirate perspective. It just seems odd to me that you can get from Jita to Amarr and pretty much any major trade hub without ever touching low sec. Where is the fight to keep trade routes open? Hell even the silk road had bandits raiding the caravans. This could also give work to small time mercs that pretty much sit around and war dec 5 man corps in Empire. Call me a PVP elitist if you want (although that's kind of a joke since I don't have nearly enough time for it as I wished I did) but I don't think Eve should be a game where PVE people can avoid 99 percent of confrontations.


Anna Lynne Larson wrote:
stuff


To be honest here i'll level with you. I couldn't give a damn about 95 percent of what I proposed up there. I'm just suggesting a way to allow bombs to be launched in Empire. Was kind of a late post off the top of my head.
GizzyBoy
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#35 - 2011-09-27 13:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: GizzyBoy
Naran Eto wrote:
Psychophantic wrote:


It'd be like the early days of UO otherwise. You'd be ganked by grief kiddies as soon as you stepped outside.



Oh god that brings back memories, remember the PK'ers and their little scams?

Before runebooks they used to lure you into a house and plonk a bookcase down infront lof the door so they could kill you without having to chase you, when vendors were introduced and they all had individual names instead of "vendor" PK's would dress up as vendors and stand on the porch of a house waiting for someone to come along and try to look at "what they're selling" then attack them. Remeber trapped bags dropped outside the vaults and pickpockets standing outside the bank.... I used to run with an axe weilding stealther mage with a backpack of axes posioned by my alt... stealth stealth attack poison teleport stealth .. good times! :D



its been a while but napa valley fo life
Anna Lynne Larson
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2011-09-27 20:10:45 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
quotes n stuff


Anna Lynne Larson wrote:
stuff


To be honest here i'll level with you. I couldn't give a damn about 95 percent of what I proposed up there. I'm just suggesting a way to allow bombs to be launched in Empire. Was kind of a late post off the top of my head.


Bombs in empire would be hilarious.

On the other hand, suicide ganking is also hilarious and that's why it's still in game.
Tuggboat
Oneida Inc.
#37 - 2011-09-27 20:44:18 UTC
Lucy Alfrir wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
I remember the days when CONCORD didn't exist. There was no real security anywhere. That being said though...I do strongly believe that it is far to easy to be a pirate in EvE. Being a pirate should be a harsh and almost impossible profession. Right now it is a near 0 risk 100% reward profession. Sure you lose your 200 mil ship or whatever but if you do it right you just banked a hauler full of loot worth far more.

Personally I think if you do ANYTHING regarding piracy you should be marked as a pirate for at least a week in which time ANYBODY can kill you with no reprecaution from CONCORD. Enough of this multi-level pirate crap. A pirate is a pirate.


Hey 200 mil is a lot of ISK for a noob like me.

I think this game is too biased towards people who want to do the boring professions of mining and carrying and mission running. ie carebears.

I'm not saying that pirating shouldn't be a crime, but the punishments seem fair to me.

You might think ganking is insta-millions but it isn't there's a lot of sitting waiting for a worthwhile target, and you need some pretty high skills or a whole bunch of people who'll all shoot at once to take down things worth taking down.

If it wasn't for pirating I wouldn't play EVE, and that's true of a lot of people. So it shouldn't be an impossible profession unless you want to see half the EVE population up and leave.



Can I has......

I can't help myself

your....

I really shouldn't post

stuff?

There I said it
Laechyd Eldgorn
Avanto
Arctic Light
#38 - 2011-09-27 21:03:31 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Been suicide ganked once in 4 years. Don't have an issue with it really. Penalties need to be allot higher though. It's far to easy to get sec status back.


not really. it's annoyance which is enough. suicide ganks keep stupid carebears in place and destroy stuff since there is currently no better way to do it.

a lot of people never leave hi sec and some don't even undock and they keep accumulating isk in their wallets. there has to be some way to get hands on it which currently is mostly suicide ganks.

and to be honest currently there is not enough suicide gankers to kill all idiots.
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