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Prevent players from activating their weapons on other players in highsec unless not in war
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#121 - 2012-04-01 15:17:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Lol, I really should have thought that out before I posted it, so especially for you Tippia

Mittens
Well, yes. It was either that, or something much, much worse. Lol



That's why I clarified, god forbid it was the other one.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#122 - 2012-04-01 15:19:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Ioci wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Quote:
EVE is all about grind, just like any other MMORPG is.

You are doing in wrong.

There is grind in EVE. But the grind is not what EVE is about. You are not doing grind to get to the end game, the final goal (level, best equipment, etc), simply because "the goal" does not exist in EVE. You decide what you want to do, and then you grind for it. What is grind for one person (e.g. I hate missions and love low-sec hauling) is not grind for someone else (a lot of mission-runners pay me for to bring them their gear). With persistence and co-operation you can almost get rid of the "grind" parts by sharing stuff with other players who are interested in things you are not, so that people do the stuff they like and let others do the rest.

And that's why EVE is superior.


That's a load of crap too.
All PvE is grind.
All PvP requires PVE to fund.

EVE is a grindwhore.

Well, you can define it as "pve = grind", in which case that holds (usually - there is PvP that supports itself, but it's rare). But if you start from the definition that grind is something you do only to achieve some goal and do not particularly enjoy, or what you have to do in excess of what you'd enjoy, then no. PvP usually requires PvE to fund (exceptions are rare), but it does not have to be particular PvE, but you can pick what you enjoy of it. (I am counting production and trade as PvE here, even though strictly speaking who you play against in it is other players.) You can share work so that people who like missions or trade do it, and support those in the corp who do PvP, so no one has to do excess amounts of what they do not enjoy. Etc.
Amity Lane
Hek Mining Association
#123 - 2012-04-01 15:19:37 UTC
Zaaark Quasar wrote:
Stop suicide ganking.

It´s totally out of balance, there isn´t any other counter on it than not logging in or sitting in station. It doesn´t add anything in the sandbox, it just makes CCP lose subscriptions.

You can't make that assumption. You don't have any data to back that up. Also, there are counters to suicide ganking...namely, avoiding them in the first place by staying away from popular suicide ganking locations and not making yourself a target. You don't go walking around in Glasgow waving fistfuls of money above your head, do you?

Quote:
Suicide ganking is not pvp content, it´s just griefing.

It is by definition PvP content, and it is not griefing by CCP's own definition.

Quote:
Pilots that don´f have balls, should grow a pair and go to 0.0 or lowsec, or drop a war declaration. Those are good for the game.

What makes you qualified to decide what is and isn't good for the game? I was under the impression that one of the point of this game was to create an immersive realistic universe. Suicide attacks are part of reality.

Quote:
One reason for EVE online low subscription number is the fact that this game is ******** towards new players and pve players.

Again, you don't have the required data to make that kind of assumption. One could just as easily argue it's because of the steep learning curve of the game or because it's not advertised as massively as other MMOs.

Quote:
PVE players do bring the same cash flow to CCP and if someone wants to spend 15$ montly just for shooting npc´s then so what?

This implies that your $15 is worth more than the $15 of the people who are suicide ganking.
ChYph3r
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#124 - 2012-04-01 15:21:22 UTC
Zaaark Quasar wrote:
Stop suicide ganking.

It´s totally out of balance, there isn´t any other counter on it than not logging in or sitting in station. It doesn´t add anything in the sandbox, it just makes CCP lose subscriptions.

Suicide ganking is not pvp content, it´s just griefing.

Pilots that don´f have balls, should grow a pair and go to 0.0 or lowsec, or drop a war declaration. Those are good for the game.

One reason for EVE online low subscription number is the fact that this game is ******** towards new players and pve players.

PVE players do bring the same cash flow to CCP and if someone wants to spend 15$ montly just for shooting npc´s then so what? It doesn´t take anything away from 'pvp' pilots.

Suicide ganking doesn´t have any valid reasoning behind it, it´s just seriously bad game design.

CCP should really show some respect on all those players who pays their paychecks.



Op got ganked....

Op got trolled....

Op is mad.....

Want to find all the podcasts around EVE Online visit http://evepodcasts.com @chyph3r  on Twitter
Stanis Myunga
Exiled Souls
#125 - 2012-04-01 15:22:35 UTC
Can you imagine the tears when an orbital fleet is providing support for DUST514 players on a planet and a grief fleet warps in and ganks everything/everyone?

That. would. be. freaking(*******). HILARIOUS.
Ioci
Bad Girl Posse
#126 - 2012-04-01 15:25:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ioci
Tippia wrote:
Ioci wrote:
If CCP remove all the bots and we can't just go to Jita to buy our L-ozone, T2 and mins you will find out just how wrong you are
…oh, you mean those things that aren't needed for PvP?

Wait, what was your post in response to again? Ugh

Oh and: if CCP removed all bots, it would be easier to go to Jita and buy all that stuff.


Yea because there are 3000 Mackinaw Bots in EVE for the PvE contributions to the game.
All that Drone Poo gets used to make mission fit Ravens, not Titans and Super Caps,
POS fuel is for people who want to high sec mine in systems with no stations, not null jump bridge networks and safe outs for when the PvE fleets roam through.

Wait, what part of the grind wasn't related to PvP again?

Also, don't assume I object to grind. I do object to denying it's not in EVE hand over fist. Anyone making ISK in EVE without it, did it for 5 years to build BPO lists and capital to fund passive ISK revenue. It's a grindy game. If people don't like grind, they really shouldn't be here. Go play Dust.

R.I.P. Vile Rat
Francisco Bizzaro
#127 - 2012-04-01 15:25:41 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Another solution for the newbie protection would have to be newbie systems or -constellations which experienced players could not enter and where newbies were granted sanctuary for a limited time.

I believe this already exists to some extent in the starter constellations, where there are different rules as to what qualifies as griefing (e.g. can flipping). Correct me if I'm wrong though, I might not be remembering correctly.

One problem with the current protections is that newbies may not be aware of what qualifies as griefing and so don't know that they can petition certain things.

But as someone mentioned earlier, these threads are not actually sincerely about protecting new players, despite claims to the contrary. The people who start them have been around long enough to acquire and lose enough wealth to get angry about.
Francisco Bizzaro
#128 - 2012-04-01 15:36:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Francisco Bizzaro
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:

Well, you can define it as "pve = grind", in which case that holds (usually - there is PvP that supports itself, but it's rare). But if you start from the definition that grind is something you do only to achieve some goal and do not particularly enjoy, or what you have to do in excess of what you'd enjoy, then no. PvP usually requires PvE to fund (exceptions are rare), but it does not have to be particular PvE, but you can pick what you enjoy of it. (I am counting production and trade as PvE here, even though strictly speaking who you play against in it is other players.) You can share work so that people who like missions or trade do it, and support those in the corp who do PvP, so no one has to do excess amounts of what they do not enjoy. Etc.

And we get to the inevitable point where these threads always lead. The terms "PVE" and "PVP" are from a different game, and really don't have a clear meaning here. "PVP" encompasses every activity in the game, including competitive resource collection and trading. When people want to restrict "PVP" they are usually referring to combat PVP, or something even more specific.

When people say "Eve is a PVP game", even that is not strictly true or relevant, at least not in the sense it is usually used (combat PvP). CCP have designed a game in which all activities involve player interaction, disputes are settled that way, and transgressions are policed but not strictly prevented. i.e. it's a sand-box. To distinguish between PVE and PVP is to fundamentally misunderstand the design principles. By taking one of those aspects out, if you could, you'd simply be playing a completely different game.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#129 - 2012-04-01 15:42:07 UTC
Ioci wrote:
Wait, what part of the grind wasn't related to PvP again?
The part where you make money.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#130 - 2012-04-01 15:48:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Tippia wrote:
Ioci wrote:
Wait, what part of the grind wasn't related to PvP again?
The part where you make money.

Missions might be considered "pure" PvE, though even there there is the risk of someone objectioning to your missioning and blowing you up. But other than that, everything else is related to PvP. E.g. trade and production bring money because stuff gets blown up and people need to replace it, and you compete against other human traders. Like Francisco Bizarro points out above, PvE and PvP do not really describe EVE all that well, as most if not all of it is player-interactive, even the parts where NPCs are involved.

There are people who approach EVE by thinking the "real" game is combat PvP, and you support it by doing "grind" PvE. But that thinking is so limited and makes you miss out on so many aspects of the sandbox...
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#131 - 2012-04-01 15:52:41 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
There are people who approach EVE by thinking the "real" game is combat PvP, and you support it by doing "grind" PvE. But that thinking is so limited and makes you miss out on so many aspects of the sandbox...
Pretty much. It gets even worse when that limited thinking makes people miss out on the various ways of generating both combat and ISK.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#132 - 2012-04-01 17:03:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Tippia wrote:
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
There are people who approach EVE by thinking the "real" game is combat PvP, and you support it by doing "grind" PvE. But that thinking is so limited and makes you miss out on so many aspects of the sandbox...
Pretty much. It gets even worse when that limited thinking makes people miss out on the various ways of generating both combat and ISK.

Oh my, but if suicide ganking just becomes an exploit ...

Like CONCORD is supposed to instantly blow you up before your prefired guns can even fire. Doing any damage to the target is therefore an exploit.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2012-04-01 17:05:46 UTC
No.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#134 - 2012-04-01 17:06:13 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Oh my, but if suicide ganking just becomes an exploit ...
…and if undocking became an exploit, oh my!

Roll
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#135 - 2012-04-01 17:13:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Oh my, but if suicide ganking just becomes an exploit ...
…and if undocking became an exploit, oh my!

Roll

The ultimate safety for the 0.01isk warriors.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Tanya Powers
Doomheim
#136 - 2012-04-01 17:14:38 UTC
Zaaark Quasar wrote:
Stop suicide ganking.

It´s totally out of balance, there isn´t any other counter on it than not logging in or sitting in station. It doesn´t add anything in the sandbox, it just makes CCP lose subscriptions.


There is a counter to it: log off, unsubscribe

As ridiculous as it looks it's the only counter you have, so use it.
Riedle
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2012-04-01 17:22:18 UTC
+1 for spelling 'lose' correctly for a total of 1/10
Vila eNorvic
#138 - 2012-04-01 17:49:29 UTC
Francisco Bizzaro wrote:
What are these new subscribers flying that are so gank-worthy?
In my case, apparently, a shuttle with a Tracking Computer I in its hold.

Tippia wrote:
New players have nothing worth losing a ship over.
Unless it's a shuttle with a TC I in its hold. Roll

Valek Noor wrote:
This sadens me deeply.

ok lets use an analogy from where i work (cause i work with kids a little)

i am the adult in charge of the sandbox and the kids are at play.

your a small child and are building a sandcastle and having a grand old time when little timmy comes along and stamps right in the middle of it making you cry

As the adult (concord in this instance ) i tell little tommy off who also is now very upset. you feel the winner despite loosing your sandcastle and little timmy now has the ump with you and will bully you for life.....

so the castle was destroyed, both of you are upset and niether of you won.

Now lets try this......

Same senario your building a sandcastle in the sun and suddenly little timmy comes screaming at you heading for your castle, this time however cause your aware he MIGHT do it your armed with a fat water pistol and shoot him as he comes close this time, thus protecting your sandcastle.

This starts a totally new game of war in the process with timmy, who you end up becoming best friends with and marrying his sister.........

CCP has this exactly how it should be - grow some and get a water pistol

WTB Rifter with big fat waterpistol :)
Comparing suicide gankers with spiteful children. How very apt.
Kaldaine
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2012-04-01 18:07:27 UTC
Zaaark Quasar wrote:
Stop suicide ganking.

It´s totally out of balance, there isn´t any other counter on it than not logging in or sitting in station. It doesn´t add anything in the sandbox, it just makes CCP lose subscriptions.

Suicide ganking is not pvp content, it´s just griefing.

Pilots that don´f have balls, should grow a pair and go to 0.0 or lowsec, or drop a war declaration. Those are good for the game.

One reason for EVE online low subscription number is the fact that this game is ******** towards new players and pve players.

PVE players do bring the same cash flow to CCP and if someone wants to spend 15$ montly just for shooting npc´s then so what? It doesn´t take anything away from 'pvp' pilots.

Suicide ganking doesn´t have any valid reasoning behind it, it´s just seriously bad game design.

CCP should really show some respect on all those players who pays their paychecks.



Agreeing with this. Remove Concord so there is no need to suicide gank please.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#140 - 2012-04-01 18:27:14 UTC
Kaldaine wrote:
Agreeing with this. Remove Concord so there is no need to suicide gank please.

You know, that joke actually was funny when I heard it the first time...