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Skill Discussions

 
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The only thing this game needs.
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Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#21 - 2012-03-31 04:50:46 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Azemar wrote:
A more active player deserves to be better or have the potential to be. That's the basics of gameplay and gaming marketing.

Eh, you're thinking about it the wrong way. In traditional MMOs, raising your skills makes your character tougher, e.g. lower level players have trouble hitting a higher level character. Generally speaking, skills in Eve are a means to an end. They don't actually make your character tougher, they just give you more options or help make you more efficient at something.

In Eve, a more active player doesn't deserve to be better. Instead, an Eve player is "better" by becoming better at doing things. Meaning, tactics, organization, and brains make you a better player. Since there are no levels in Eve, being Level 100 in Eve won't save your hauler from a Level 1 player in a basic frigate.


As for raising your skills by active gameplay, it's redundant. Everyone already trains as if they were online 24 hours a day. How can you improve on that?




Expand upon what you mean. Your skills directly make you better at the game. Reduced repair systems duration, increased resistances, armor hp, mining amount, turret damage, etc. And you're thinking about it in the wrong way. We will always be training 24/7, but it is slow. We should have a way to actively train, whether through time dedication or maybe increased passives via isk. Either way, it doesn't hurt anyone. All it hurts is that "Eve is the most prestigious mmorpg and we're better than everyone else" mentality. And it's ignorant to think that applying a system like this makes eve even remotely close to all the other mmos.
Maximillian Dragonard
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#22 - 2012-03-31 09:55:40 UTC
My take on this.....

"I have more time to play that the other guy and I want that to be even more of an advantage than isk"

Sorry, but if anything remotely similar to what you want were to be added to the game, the cancellation of accounts would make Incarna look like a blip on the radar. I'm almost 50 years old, and be damned if I will play a game that requires me to grind to keep up. Your idea of it being optional is horseshit to be quite frank.

Wut?!
AureoBroker
Perkone
Caldari State
#23 - 2012-03-31 12:16:37 UTC
Can do.
No higher than 5%, though.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#24 - 2012-03-31 14:21:17 UTC
No. That is quite literally the last thing the game needs. It was tried and rejected because of the awful gameplay and idiotic behaviour it generated.

You are already being rewarded for being active, and in a way that makes the whole thing impervious to grinding and botting. Above all, the current system lets you actually play the game rather than worry about some silly (and ultimately irrelevant) “advancement” or SP accumulation.

Quote:
Either way, it doesn't hurt anyone.
Yes it does. It hurts everyone since it doesn't solve any kind of problem and provides people with incentives not to play the game, but rather to engage in meaningless repetition and time-sinking.
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#25 - 2012-03-31 17:51:57 UTC
Maximillian Dragonard wrote:
My take on this.....

"I have more time to play that the other guy and I want that to be even more of an advantage than isk"

Sorry, but if anything remotely similar to what you want were to be added to the game, the cancellation of accounts would make Incarna look like a blip on the radar. I'm almost 50 years old, and be damned if I will play a game that requires me to grind to keep up. Your idea of it being optional is horseshit to be quite frank.



I can see where you would derive that from, but i really do not have that much time either. Nonetheless, this is an mmorpg. A unique one yes, but if i am willing to put the time and isk into something, i should be able to train something faster.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#26 - 2012-03-31 18:12:03 UTC
Azemar wrote:
And it's ignorant to think that applying a system like this makes eve even remotely close to all the other mmos.

No, it is not. And yes, it does.

Patience est mère de la sagesse.

Remove standings and insurance.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#27 - 2012-03-31 18:18:26 UTC
Azemar wrote:
Nonetheless, this is an mmorpg. A unique one yes, but if i am willing to put the time and isk into something, i should be able to train something faster.
So? One has nothing to do with the other.

This is a non-grinding, no-level, class-less, passive-ability, real-time progression game, so you shouldn't be able to train things faster no matter what you do. If you want to spend time and ISK, you can do so, and it has its own set of rewards (knowledge and experience), but all of that rightly lies with you the player rather than with your character.
Korsiri
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-03-31 19:27:36 UTC
It all sounds good in theory but in practice it simply leads to botting - afk macroing - repetitive gameplay. I prefer Eve's version because it is balanced, equitable and relaxing! I don't have to constantly worry I'm not "doing something" because I can train my skills in real time, offline or on-line.

increasing the rate skills gain via active use reminds me far too much of UO's power hour, which didn't work either.
Dirk Culliford
Zero G Universal Enterprises
#29 - 2012-03-31 20:26:13 UTC
The reason why it takes decades to train all the skills is....because you're not supposed to get all of them!!!!


Get your hands away from our EVE thx
FireT
Venom Pointe Industries
#30 - 2012-03-31 20:40:48 UTC
OP is an idiot (not just an insult but a fact). You keep ignoring one key issue here and I will write it in blod so you might see it better:

CCP TRIED THIS AND REMOVED IT.

YOU ARE NOT SMARTER THAN THE ENTIRE CCP STAFF AND HALF THE FORUM POINTING OUT YOUR FLAWS.

Have a great weekend.
Tazarak theDeceiver
United Mining and Hauling Inc
The Initiative.
#31 - 2012-04-01 01:00:54 UTC
cool idea... but my one thing would be WASD instead.... probably could get thousands of people to try Eve if they could intuitively fly their damn ship
Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#32 - 2012-04-01 01:10:31 UTC
So to get max training speed u would have to play 24h /day or bot. If u want ur grinding to = sp just buy characters with isk.
Clementina
University of Caille
#33 - 2012-04-01 04:39:18 UTC
The skill system as constituted is what has made Eve what it is. Basically it has kept the developers honest insomuch as if they needed to add content, they had to add to the game, rather than add extra grinding.
The skill system as currently constituted is also a good business proposition, it keeps people subscribed even if they don't have time to play in a given month, because even if they can't grind, they can still log in to change skills.
CCP should definitely keep it
Recknin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2012-04-02 04:46:01 UTC
Azemar wrote:
It's an economic "free lunch".

lol.
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
#35 - 2012-04-02 20:54:53 UTC
I've been playing since about 2008. I am glad that I have nowhere near all skills. The thing is that CCP doesn't want ANYONE to ever be able to do everything. That's kind of the whole plan. 4 years is far too soon for skills to be maxed. I can understand the frustration, but I for one like the fact that I can do whatever I choose, and I don't have to worry about it hampering my skill progression.
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
#36 - 2012-04-02 21:38:57 UTC
Nothing about this actually enhances gameplay. All this does is add another reason/level of grinding, it doesn't make ANYTHING about eve MORE interesting. Stop with these garbage threads full of terrible ideas because you're too damn stupid to use evemon and create a skill plan.

herp derp im gonna beat eve by training all demz skills.
Lost Greybeard
Drunken Yordles
#37 - 2012-04-03 00:16:18 UTC
Well, they have been trying to get people out into areas with actual combat. They could give you a 5% training speed increase any time you're in a 0.4 system or lower that has had x number of ship deaths in the last hour, with various caveats like you have to actually be in space and uncloaked and so on.

That would actually be nice, since it would cancel out the fact that my combat clones use cheaper training implants. Pirate
Azemar
Voidhounds
Pretenders
#38 - 2012-04-03 02:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Azemar
Outz Xacto wrote:
Nothing about this actually enhances gameplay. All this does is add another reason/level of grinding, it doesn't make ANYTHING about eve MORE interesting. Stop with these garbage threads full of terrible ideas because you're too damn stupid to use evemon and create a skill plan.

herp derp im gonna beat eve by training all demz skills.




You've in fact added to your own idiocy but completely misunderstanding the thread. It has nothing to do with creating a skill plan. It's this simple: I want to use this ship, and i'm willing to donate time and isk to do it so i don't have to wait an excess of 2 months. Give me that ability.

It's that cut and dry.


Lost Greybeard wrote:
Well, they have been trying to get people out into areas with actual combat. They could give you a 5% training speed increase any time you're in a 0.4 system or lower that has had x number of ship deaths in the last hour, with various caveats like you have to actually be in space and uncloaked and so on.

That would actually be nice, since it would cancel out the fact that my combat clones use cheaper training implants. Pirate



Exactly. Create a system that favors action, but also the active player.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#39 - 2012-04-03 08:42:33 UTC
Azemar wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but i'm going to play devil's advocate here:

A way to actively train skills.

god i love this game, it's so beautiful. Internet spaceships couldn't get better, but a way to actively train skills would seriously be the icing on the cake. The only qualm i have ever had with this game is the fact that i cannot do anything to make a skill train faster. Who loses with this? More active players are better, less active aren't.

Make activities that train a skill, such as a mini-game, a test maybe. Make these cost isk so you still have to go out into the world, and do everything.

Maybe add in whenever you're doing an activity that directly relates to your current skill, it amplifies the training time. This would further implore you to go out into the world.

Thoughts/Criticisms?


You've found one of the only MMOs in existence that doesn't mandate level grinding, and you want to add level grinding to it?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
FireT
Venom Pointe Industries
#40 - 2012-04-03 13:23:41 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Azemar wrote:
I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but i'm going to play devil's advocate here:

A way to actively train skills.

god i love this game, it's so beautiful. Internet spaceships couldn't get better, but a way to actively train skills would seriously be the icing on the cake. The only qualm i have ever had with this game is the fact that i cannot do anything to make a skill train faster. Who loses with this? More active players are better, less active aren't.

Make activities that train a skill, such as a mini-game, a test maybe. Make these cost isk so you still have to go out into the world, and do everything.

Maybe add in whenever you're doing an activity that directly relates to your current skill, it amplifies the training time. This would further implore you to go out into the world.

Thoughts/Criticisms?


You've found one of the only MMOs in existence that doesn't mandate level grinding, and you want to add level grinding to it?




No it is worse. And this is why I am questioning his intelligence. He wishes to retain the automatic skill training BUT wants it to switch to active skill training when he uses certain modules / skills. It is what I call the instant gratification ****.

Then again this is only marginally better than the idiot that had requested to remove skills all together.

I am just curious why he wants the skill training here when other MMO's have the grind he so desperately needs. He could always leave.