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How extended is the concept of Sandbox for this Burn Jita thing ?
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Dead Loss
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2012-03-31 16:31:33 UTC
Consider this :

Eve is supposed to be a sandbox where we can pretty much what we want as long as it doesn't break the rules. I am not going to discuss the rules in themselves.

Now, as a part of the Eve universe, there is the entity of CONCORD.

CONCORD represents the justice system of Eve in a way, and by its side the various imperial/republic/navy fleets of the 4 races.

If CCP is going to play this sandbox universe as it should, then they have to use CONCORD as it should be used by an envirnment which is constantly evolving.

My point is this :

1 - Goons decide to burn Jita. They announce it publicly, we have knowledge of numbers of ships, in the thousands, that they are planning to bring to Jita.

2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe.

3 - CONCORD could possibly reinforce its presence in Jita as a response to the global knowledge that the Goonswarm alliance is planning to strike at the heart of the Empire.

I mean, this is not against Goonswarm. But there seems to be the following debate :

- Either CCP allows Goonswarm to burn Jita to the ground and thousands of people will be pissed off because they lost huge amounts of assets, ships, isk etc.
- Either CCP stops Goonswarm from doing this and thousands of people will be pissed off for violation of the sandbox concept.

As far as I am concerned, there are many other options for CCP to deal with this. One of them is what I was talking about.

The Empire is under the jurisdiction of CONCORD and the various states in it (Caldari in this case).

- Why would the Caldari State and CONCORD not decide to bring Jita up to a 1.0 security system ?
- Why would CONCORD not decide to bring in thousands of their ships into Jita for the duration of the event ?
Why would CONCORD not issue a global terrorism flag on Goonswarm for the duration of the event, making all of their members criminals flagged on a 24/7 GCC ?

I mean, the decision to strike at the heart of the Empire, to strike at the heart of the trading system of the Empire, that decision is taken consciously by the leaders of Goonswarm, and ALL of the alliance is accepting it and supporting it. So if CONCORD and the Caldari State consider that the whole alliance represents a global security concern for them, the decision to flag the whole alliance on a temporary GCC isn't going against the sandbox.

This just means that Goonswarm will have to adapt. They will still be able to re-group in low sec, on the outside of the Caldari State, etc. And from there they will have to figure out how to make it to Jita as fast as possible, to strike as hard as possible. But it shouldn't be possible to any member of Goonswarm to have Orcas posted in safe spots in Jita for example, or anywhere in the Caldari State systems as far as I am concerned.

And this is not CCP making it harder on the Goons, this is the Goons making it harder on themselves. But if this is a sandbox, and things have to be a bit realistic, then once an announcement has been made that a whole alliance will engage in terrorism, if it's left ignored then there is no realism at all.

And again, I'm not saying this to **** of the Goons. I actually find it funny that they attempt this, and I will watch with great interest. I just don't think that CCP should forbid it just as much as they shouldn't ignore it and let Jita burn so easily.

CONCORD is there for a reason.
Danfen Fenix
#2 - 2012-03-31 16:36:39 UTC
This is true

Fight to preserve the sandbox....experience the full possibilities of the sandbox

Unless of course, goons now want to claim that the game should be a sandbox, by how they... define a sandbox Roll
Torneach
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-03-31 16:40:21 UTC
Danfen Fenix wrote:
Unless of course, goons now want to claim that the game should be a sandbox, by how they... define a sandbox Roll


There lies the problem. Goons have been on top for so long now that they now seem to have a bit of a superiority complex.

Their way or the highway.
Alexa Coates
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-03-31 16:41:15 UTC
I was expecting a whine thread but this is very well thought out. Good idea OP.

That's a Templar, an Amarr fighter used by carriers.
Pubbie 0ne
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2012-03-31 16:41:52 UTC
Or, better question: How about, if you're that concerned, you move to a different system for a day?

I'm Major Douchebag
Sid Hudgens
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-03-31 16:48:09 UTC
Hmmm... people ganking in jita. That doesn't sound like something that happens ... you know ... all the live long day.

Wait yes it does.

Stop thinking this will be some kind of major event. Nobody with any sense cares.

"....as if 10,058 Goon voices cried out and were suddenly silenced."
Torneach
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-03-31 16:48:46 UTC
Pubbie 0ne wrote:
Or, better question: How about, if you're that concerned, you move to a different system for a day?


Missed by a mile.
Dead Loss
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-03-31 17:01:03 UTC
Pubbie 0ne wrote:
Or, better question: How about, if you're that concerned, you move to a different system for a day?


Completely unrelated.

But I can see how everytime we talk about the goons you feel offended. Believe me there is no offense meant here.
Kazacy
BACKFIRE Squad
#9 - 2012-03-31 17:14:04 UTC
to the OP:
burn Jita it's posted on eve-o forums but are you sure CONCORD read this forum?
Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2012-03-31 17:18:36 UTC
Get a thrasher and kill some pods.

Stuff Goes here
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-03-31 17:19:39 UTC
To play along with a really bad post: CONCORD can't read out-of-game intel.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2012-03-31 17:24:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Dead Loss wrote:
2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe.
No, that does not follow.

CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (e.g. by building module X instead of ship Y). Likewise, CONCORD doesn't change just because we choose to trigger it more or less often, and with or without a plan behind those triggering events. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve — it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#13 - 2012-03-31 17:25:36 UTC
CONCORD dont base their fleet deployment on rumors and hearsay.
Judge Solace
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-03-31 17:27:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dead Loss wrote:
2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe.
No, that does not follow.

CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (e.g. by building module X instead of ship Y). Likewise, CONCORD doesn't change just because we choose to trigger it more or less often, and with or without a plan behind those triggering events. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve — it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world.


Doesnt need to evolve, CONCORD's mandate is to provide safety for trade, it is their "current" role.
Sedalectra
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2012-03-31 17:29:27 UTC
How about something really wild, like the PLAYERS actually take action to defend Jita?

No, you're right, that's crazy talk. I must have lost my head there for a second.
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#16 - 2012-03-31 17:32:27 UTC
Judge Solace wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dead Loss wrote:
2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe.
No, that does not follow.

CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (e.g. by building module X instead of ship Y). Likewise, CONCORD doesn't change just because we choose to trigger it more or less often, and with or without a plan behind those triggering events. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve — it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world.


Doesnt need to evolve, CONCORD's mandate is to provide safety for trade, it is their "current" role.


Lore aside, Concord's purpose as part of the game is to provide concequences for unlawful activity, not to provide safety.
Lord Publow
Doomheim
#17 - 2012-03-31 17:34:38 UTC
Salam, Brother Loss. The extension of the core does not matter, it is why we call it an extension.

I fight for Hoovers everywhere. http://hoover.com/
Judge Solace
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2012-03-31 17:35:02 UTC
VaMei wrote:
Judge Solace wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dead Loss wrote:
2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe.
No, that does not follow.

CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (e.g. by building module X instead of ship Y). Likewise, CONCORD doesn't change just because we choose to trigger it more or less often, and with or without a plan behind those triggering events. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve — it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world.


Doesnt need to evolve, CONCORD's mandate is to provide safety for trade, it is their "current" role.


Lore aside, Concord's purpose as part of the game is to provide concequences for unlawful activity, not to provide safety.


"CONCORD contains a division called the Secure Commerce Commission which is jointly run by the major New Eden empires to ensure a safe and universally regulated trade environment."

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CONCORD
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#19 - 2012-03-31 17:36:34 UTC
Judge Solace wrote:
VaMei wrote:
Judge Solace wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Dead Loss wrote:
2 - CONCORD is a part of the Eve universe, and if in reality this was a sandbox, CONCORD would also evolve with the information and knowledge of the universe.
No, that does not follow.

CONCORD is part of the sandbox in the same way as tritanium is. Tritanium doesn't change just because we choose new ways of using it (e.g. by building module X instead of ship Y). Likewise, CONCORD doesn't change just because we choose to trigger it more or less often, and with or without a plan behind those triggering events. Just because EVE is a sandbox doesn't mean CONCORD has to evolve — it just means CONCORD is part of the tool box with which we shape our world.


Doesnt need to evolve, CONCORD's mandate is to provide safety for trade, it is their "current" role.


Lore aside, Concord's purpose as part of the game is to provide concequences for unlawful activity, not to provide safety.


"CONCORD contains a division called the Secure Commerce Commission which is jointly run by the major New Eden empires to ensure a safe and universally regulated trade environment."

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CONCORD


As I said, lore aside.
Richard Desturned
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2012-03-31 17:38:42 UTC
lore is written to justify the game mechanics

devs don't sit down and say "the lore says..."

npc alts have no opinions worth consideration
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