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C0URT: On the conflict between DSTON, NUVOS and the Seekers of Silent Paradise.
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Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#41 - 2012-03-30 14:37:36 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

You don't really... understand what The Seekers are after, do you? "No one is to blame" is basically the exact opposite of their views.


No, I don't really understand. I find it a schizophrenic philosophy, and fully admit that my knowledge of it is weak. I've gotten little glimpses of clarification here and there, but it's still something of a mystery. I'm quite sure he has no qualms with his actions, obviously.

That doesn't really apply, though. What I was trying (and apparently failing) to point out is that his actions don't shift responsibility for the act onto DSTON or anyone else - the responsibility is his, and no amount of blackmailing or taunting will change that. The claim that those deaths are on Ston's hands is simply false.

This said, no doubt Ston feels horrible about the incident. That in and of itself could easily be a secondary goal of the action.

Thank you for pointing out my vague communication and letting me clarify it. I find you highly acerbic, but rarely wrong.



If those idiots whom have supposedly dedicated their lives to fighting 'injustice' and saving the lives of the downtrodden have but to lift a finger and make a simple communication in order to do -just that-, and yet fail to make even a cursory effort, then we know their prior claims to be nothing but vapor.

100 separate threads for each little individual life they save.

Not lifting a finger to save 20,000.

Seems pretty clear to me attention is all they really wanted all along.



Sabik now, Sabik forever
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#42 - 2012-03-30 15:06:59 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

If those idiots whom have supposedly dedicated their lives to fighting 'injustice' and saving the lives of the downtrodden have but to lift a finger and make a simple communication in order to do -just that-, and yet fail to make even a cursory effort, then we know their prior claims to be nothing but vapor.

100 separate threads for each little individual life they save.

Not lifting a finger to save 20,000.

Seems pretty clear to me attention is all they really wanted all along.


Given that part of the demands were to hand over all of their matriculants to a group that had been at war with them, I can understand his reluctance. Morality becomes a very sticky thing at times, this is one of them. This said, I agree that he could have done more.

And yet, he's still not morally responsible for those deaths. It can call his intentions into doubt, perhaps, but this is an action between Captain Airaken and his victims, nothing more. I believe that Ston is likely following a "No negotiation with terrorists" strategy - not one I personally follow, but I can understand why he might do so.
Silas Vitalia
Doomheim
#43 - 2012-03-30 15:40:09 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
Silas Vitalia wrote:

If those idiots whom have supposedly dedicated their lives to fighting 'injustice' and saving the lives of the downtrodden have but to lift a finger and make a simple communication in order to do -just that-, and yet fail to make even a cursory effort, then we know their prior claims to be nothing but vapor.

100 separate threads for each little individual life they save.

Not lifting a finger to save 20,000.

Seems pretty clear to me attention is all they really wanted all along.


Given that part of the demands were to hand over all of their matriculants to a group that had been at war with them, I can understand his reluctance. Morality becomes a very sticky thing at times, this is one of them. This said, I agree that he could have done more.

And yet, he's still not morally responsible for those deaths. It can call his intentions into doubt, perhaps, but this is an action between Captain Airaken and his victims, nothing more. I believe that Ston is likely following a "No negotiation with terrorists" strategy - not one I personally follow, but I can understand why he might do so.


I thought real humanitarians whom care about every-little-thing would be above politics and ego, and put aside such things in the endeavor to save lives? They'd happily embarrass and debase themselves in order to save even a single life. Or in this case do nothing and watch people die.

Sabik now, Sabik forever
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#44 - 2012-03-30 17:38:44 UTC
Silas Vitalia wrote:

I thought real humanitarians whom care about every-little-thing would be above politics and ego, and put aside such things in the endeavor to save lives? They'd happily embarrass and debase themselves in order to save even a single life. Or in this case do nothing and watch people die.


I understand your sentiment, Captain Vitalia, but I think you're missing my point. Ston may have disappointed expectations of him here, but this does nothing to change the moral culpability. He isn't responsible for Captain Airaken's actions, full stop. You're free to express your disappointment, but it's a tangent from the point I was trying to make.
Mensha Khael Crow
House Murder
#45 - 2012-03-30 19:06:51 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Rodj Blake wrote:
I'm no fan of the Stonites, but I find the cold-blooded murder of 20,000 slaves in order to provoke a response from them to be morally repugnant.


Indeed. I'm still curious to hear Mensha Khael Crow's reaction, considering that he agreed to arbitrate on behalf of a heretical organization (the Seekers are EoM after all) and hasn't publically decried their actions in slaughtering the innocent.


My personal reaction?

I am impressed that DSTON has managed to create a situation where concerns of C0URT and those stemming from the differing theological grounds of SASPR could be worked into a generous offer of peace from both of our respective organizations.

I am saddened that DSTON chose to ignore the offer that would have seen Amarrian freemen released from heathen hands. And that they further chose to ignore the Ultimatum from SASPR, leading to the death of twenty thousand slaves.

I am unsuprised that Tribals have yet to thank mr.Airaken for releasing twenty thousand of their kin from slavery. At least for those who have been known to argue the benefits of death over enslavement by Amarrian holders.

I doubt there is little for me to publically opinion that mr.Airaken does not understand of his own accord. Ofcourse if there are others who feel sufficiently strongly on the matter. I am certain your chastisements will be heard and they will lead mr. Airaken and his compatriots to seek your forgiveness forthwith.

While you fine people wait for that to happen, I will be looking for new opportunities to do.

Captain Crow.
Our righteousness is evident in the failures of the heathen, God keep us from falling prey to their weaknesses.
Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#46 - 2012-03-30 20:23:29 UTC
while, as he is a self professed holder, i would like nothing more than to see Mr Crow here burn... somewhat earlier than most of new eden, he does have a point.

yes, we killed 20 thousand slaves, as a sweeping generalization that seems undoubtedly evil.

However, these slaves were VITOC ADDICTS, placed on the open market with no care for their addictions or physical state.

Their deaths were clean. which is far better than would have been likely should they have remained in holding on the market for the next month. Vitoxin is a terrible way to die. My own family suffered under it's weight.

Those slaves now have the peace Ston so often bids them, yet he keeps vitoc addicts alive, with the constant knowledge that an agonising death is mere weeks away once he gets bored of them.

I will bring peace to the cluster. one life at a time.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#47 - 2012-03-31 12:01:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Rodj Blake
Dilaro thagriin wrote:
while, as he is a self professed holder, i would like nothing more than to see Mr Crow here burn... somewhat earlier than most of new eden, he does have a point.

yes, we killed 20 thousand slaves, as a sweeping generalization that seems undoubtedly evil.

However, these slaves were VITOC ADDICTS, placed on the open market with no care for their addictions or physical state.

Their deaths were clean. which is far better than would have been likely should they have remained in holding on the market for the next month. Vitoxin is a terrible way to die. My own family suffered under it's weight.

Those slaves now have the peace Ston so often bids them, yet he keeps vitoc addicts alive, with the constant knowledge that an agonising death is mere weeks away once he gets bored of them.

I will bring peace to the cluster. one life at a time.


Or you could have bought them some Vitoc.

Or handed them over to an organisation such as the SPCS which has a history of caring for slaves.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#48 - 2012-03-31 12:18:17 UTC
Dilaro thagriin wrote:
I will bring peace to the cluster. one life at a time.
I never understood why the friendly EoM fanatics do not start with their own.

It would speed up the process immensely for everyone involved.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#49 - 2012-03-31 12:36:12 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Dilaro thagriin wrote:
I will bring peace to the cluster. one life at a time.
I never understood why the friendly EoM fanatics do not start with their own.

It would speed up the process immensely for everyone involved.


Much as I hate to be defending them in any way, they see themselves as shepherds. They have to guide the rest of us into death before they can even think about killing themselves in any permanent fashion.

And then you have other sorts, like Boma, who believe that they are entirely impossible to kill, because they are one of the foundations of the universe.
Dilaro thagriin
Doomheim
#50 - 2012-03-31 14:41:21 UTC
Holder Blake, perhaps you failed to grasp the true meaning of my words

Vitoc addiction, in and of itself, is a death sentence. the death it promises is a slow and agonizing one, and it was your people, the ones you defend, both in your words and actions, on a daily basis that sentenced them to that death.

We granted them blessed release from such torment.

Tiberious is correct

How would it be possible to ensure that this garden is once again pure, beautiful and free, if we were the first to be given peace

No, remaining here is a sacrifice. but one that is made willingly.
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