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Fanfest: Factional Warfare

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Sentinel Mantik
Second Star
#221 - 2012-03-28 19:33:32 UTC
Simyaldee wrote:

...

I have seen several people on the forums posting on issues such as Faction Warfare and such. Mostly these people are members of large null sec alliances or can be assumed so because of the way they post. While your opinions are appreciated most of you have no idea what your talking about so I suggest you focus on parts of the game that you know.
...



I can fully understand you, i am at the moment in nullsec because friends told me to but i would come back to FW as soon as I can. It is for me the best thing in eve if it works well. and makes sense.

I also agree that the ideas of Hans mostly fit what i want for FW. Even if i want FW to be much much more about the factions. (boni for flying a Minmatar vessel while in a FW-System and flying for Minmatar-Militia OR something else)

Minmatar 4 life

German player.
Damar Rocarion
Nasranite Watch
#222 - 2012-03-28 20:08:20 UTC
Simyaldee wrote:
Forget the past.


Never.

Carry on with the discussion.
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#223 - 2012-03-28 20:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Kade Jeekin
Faction Warfare is not War.

It is a deliberate construct of CONCORD and the factions to seem to be fighting without committing to all-out war and the horror that would be unleashed.

Effectively here the capsuleers are asking for more meaning to be attached to their activities. CONCORD and the factions are considering ways that they can continue to feed the illusion of war without pushing it too far.

Some capsuleers are happy with the phoney war. Others want to take it further.

From my RP you will understand that I am one who would want to take it further. This is one reason why Ushra'Khan has chosen not to join the militias.

It's up to CCP. How do they wish the phoney war to develop? Are they ready for full-scale war yet? Sov switching, station lockout, system sec levels changing? How will it fit with DUST?

I'll be sticking with it for the few crumbs of liberation that we are able to attain for the enslaved.
Vordak Kallager
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#224 - 2012-03-28 21:16:28 UTC
Kade Jeekin wrote:
Faction Warfare is not War.

It is a deliberate construct of CONCORD and the factions to seem to be fighting without committing to all-out war and the horror that would be unleashed. Read the lore.

Effectively here the capsuleers are asking for more meaning to be attached to their activities. CONCORD and the factions are considering ways that they can continue to feed the illusion of war without pushing it too far.

Some capsuleers are happy with the phoney war. Others want to take it further.

From my RP you will understand that I am one who would want to take it further. This is one reason why Ushra'Khan has chosen not to join the militias.

It's up to CCP. How do they wish the phoney war to develop? Are they ready for full-scale war yet? Sov switching, station lockout, system sec levels changing? How will it fit with DUST?

I'll be sticking with it for the few crumbs of liberation that we are able to attain for the enslaved.


The problem is, the vast majority of players in FW don't care for this kind of hardcore RP environment. If CCP decides to pursue that path, you'll see a) a lot of unsubs from dudes who don't want to deal with it anymore and b) a lot of people simply going pirate. Either way, it doesn't help FW unless you want to reserve it as a holdout for wizard hat Roleplayers (nothing wrong with that, as long as you consider the consequences to FW participation). Straight

Sa souvraya niende misain ye.
Zverofaust
Ascetic Virtues
#225 - 2012-03-28 21:26:56 UTC
Kade Jeekin wrote:
Read the lore.


I have made it my personal goal in Eve to never read any post containing the words "Read the lore" and I do not intend to break that promise now.
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#226 - 2012-03-29 00:15:57 UTC
Zverofaust wrote:
Kade Jeekin wrote:
Read the lore.


I have made it my personal goal in Eve to never read any post containing the words "Read the lore" and I do not intend to break that promise now.


Duly noted and amended :)
Deen Wispa
Sheriff.
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#227 - 2012-03-29 00:20:39 UTC
My concern is that the rewards we get for holding a system is moot if it gets flipped when we go to sleep. We will never be able to enjoy the rewards/bonuses if it gets flipped easily

High Five. Yeah! C'est La Eve .
Kade Jeekin
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
#228 - 2012-03-29 00:33:57 UTC
Vordak Kallager wrote:

The problem is, the vast majority of players in FW don't care for this kind of hardcore RP environment. If CCP decides to pursue that path, you'll see a) a lot of unsubs from dudes who don't want to deal with it anymore and b) a lot of people simply going pirate. Either way, it doesn't help FW unless you want to reserve it as a holdout for wizard hat Roleplayers (nothing wrong with that, as long as you consider the consequences to FW participation). Straight


SOV flipping and station lock-out is not any more RP than occupancy flipping and plex capturing. The vast majority of players in FW dont care much for those either.

I was only saying that my RP is what motivates me to have a preference. It's what's ekpt me in FW this long. I will continue to RP with whatever CCP decides to do. You on the other hand suggest that you'll quit FW or even EVE if your playstyle gets too upset.
Julius Foederatus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#229 - 2012-03-29 04:09:37 UTC
I don't understand where all this "omgz ccp is trying to turn FW into null sec is coming from." They haven't introduced ideas for any new structures to grind, all the occupancy mechanics we have currently would still be the same in the new expansion.

The only thing that is fundamentally different is that there are now consequences. And to anyone who doesn't like it, tough ****. If you want casual pvp and still be in fw, you can station yourself in a non-FW low sec system or high sec. If a carefree pvp environment requires jumping a bunch of ships into your enemy's backyard and then camping them out of their own station, then I'd love to see it killed and replaced with something else.

Adapt or die folks.
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#230 - 2012-03-29 04:52:45 UTC
Kade Jeekin wrote:
I'll be sticking with it for the few crumbs of liberation that we are able to attain for the enslaved.

You could Amarr and fight for true freedom, escape from under the boot-heel of the Tyrant Shakor, overthrow his dictatorship and reinstate the Republic! Lol
Vordak Kallager wrote:
The problem is, the vast majority of players in FW don't care for this kind of hardcore RP environment... Straight

Doesn't have to "hardcore", just something .. anything. The events CCP orchestrated at the beginning of the war, where specific systems was targeted by the empires saw some great fighting and lots of non-RP'ers embraced it .. some even copy/pasted drivel in local from time to time Smile
Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#231 - 2012-03-29 05:08:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Flyinghotpocket
Julius Foederatus wrote:
I don't understand where all this "omgz ccp is trying to turn FW into null sec is coming from." They haven't introduced ideas for any new structures to grind, all the occupancy mechanics we have currently would still be the same in the new expansion.

The only thing that is fundamentally different is that there are now consequences. And to anyone who doesn't like it, tough ****. If you want casual pvp and still be in fw, you can station yourself in a non-FW low sec system or high sec. If a carefree pvp environment requires jumping a bunch of ships into your enemy's backyard and then camping them out of their own station, then I'd love to see it killed and replaced with something else.

Adapt or die folks.


Big smile nailed it!

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Ranshe
Blackwater Task Forces
Goonswarm Federation
#232 - 2012-03-29 07:17:56 UTC
Julius Foederatus wrote:
I don't understand where all this "omgz ccp is trying to turn FW into null sec is coming from."


I do.

It's called "people being scared of any change".

As seen by the previous doom scenarios about allowing alliances into FW.
Arrynoss
Doomheim
#233 - 2012-03-29 08:33:22 UTC
Deen Wispa wrote:
Vyktor Abyss wrote:
Completely disagree. No docking is an excellent and much needed mechanic.


Anyone complaining about their ships being 'locked away' has no ground to stand on tbh. You dont have to base on the front line, you can still contract 'locked out' ships etc for sale, use an alt to pick them up or just use a staging POS with corp hangars/ship arrays etc.



Apparently, RL isn't a solid ground to stand on? Let me offer a counter for people to chew on;

I go away for a few days. Or a week or two. All of a sudden the station that was in Gallente sov is now Caldari. How do I 'unlock' my ship? Now you're saying I have to train an alt to Gallente BCs or T2 HACS just so it can pick up my locked ship? Or who in the world is gonna buy a ship that is specifically rigged and fitted for certain combat situations?

Or that I or my corp now has to get into POS management just to avoid this lockout situation? Not every corp wants to buy a POS, learn POS management, and maintain the POS just so they can avoid this situation.

I totally agree that station games is horrible and we should do what is needed to deter this. Granted, this is all in the incubation stage and the 'no docking' mechanic is only suggested. But I've seen alot of people advocate for a no docking mechanic and haven't seen alot of people try to counter it. I'm offering a counter in the hopes of finding a solution that offers what we're all looking for out of FW; better immersion and more pew.

Reading b/w the lines, it seems that CCP is only in the incubation stage of iterating on FW. I was hoping they had more solid plans at this point for Inferno



RL isn't a leg to stand on no.

Everyone has to place RL first and for the past 9 years, Eve has moved on whilst you have been away from the game. 0.0 regions have flipped ownership overnight and trillions in assets have become locked down in stations.

This point of locking stations out and presenting players with ACTUAL loss if they lose a system gives you the very reason to fight and hold space in FW. Quite frankly, it is a key factor in providing FW with a reason fight which it has missed since Empyrean Age hit TQ.

I'm sorry but if you are looking for a happy tree friend place to dock your ships and hold hands, dock them in high sec and commute to your FW zone of choice. If you remove the fear of actual loss from the game, then you remove the heart of Eve. FW has never had this mechanic because it was introduced as a shallow expansion to iterate on and never was.

There are plenty of people in Eve that make their living from logistics. If you by chance get your ships stuck, you should be looking to hit them up to help you out. This is not an interation of World of Warcraft and FW should be made to provide animosoty between the factions. The more of that there is, the more reason there is to fight and fight with everything you have got.

Anything that moves FW away from Station Games Online is a huge plus.
Abeer
BeerCaps
#234 - 2012-03-29 09:53:24 UTC
Hey Guys,

i like some of the Ideas that has been posted.

1. the no dock to lost systems:
if you handle it right it might be a good change. atm you just settle in a system and make sure enough of your buddys
are logged in and then it is your home base because you can not prevent them to bring reinforcements in form of
new ships. as soon this will be implemented the players has to move the shiny stuff to the entrance systems but still
high sec. this would end up in more patrole warefare. so small ships checking the border lines while bigger ships
are used to engage a system. its more real war. you cannot just put all the stuff you need to run a war in the middle
of the enemy. and it will decrease the usage of bigger/expensive ships for even small engagements.
for me this sounds pretty good, i dont like that you just can dock and reship to bigger stuff und just escalate the fight
in no time. with that change lost forces need more time to reship as long you dont have ships in system.
it will give the defender a bit more security.

2. upgrade systems you militia owns.
also a good idea as long it does not make it too strong. i like the cyno jammer idea, it prevents the massive blobb
when a fight is spotted and will lead to more fair fights. atm every one is scared that a massive fleet is just cyno
into an ongoing fight and just blobb with supers (welcome to PL). this will lead to more small bs gangs with scouter in front
and way more fair fights. what i dont like is upgrading to a npc patrol in system, this will decrease the chance of
having engagements with smaller ships, because any dps even when it comes only a little from npc will disturb the fight.
it also should not be to expensive in LP or based on the range it is from your empire. 1 jump cheap, 2 jumps moderate,
3 jumps expensive. so you will have always less secured systems where engagemts always happens.
it would be great if you can upgrade a system with plexes. so as more you upgrade as more plexes
as more you upgrade as more plexes the enemy has to run to attack the hub, for sure this needs a limit...

3. cheaper stuff from lp store
i dont like the idea.. the lp store is already pretty cheap. and the lp prise is already dropping massive.
the price of a slicer (just to imagine) dropped in a half a yeahr from 24mio to 11mio.
i mean at the moment its acceptable, but already hard at the boarder line. why fly a 10mio t1 fitted frigg
if you can have way better utility by fly a faction frigg for 20mil. up to 20mio for a hull was totally acceptable,
at this time you saw way more t1 friggs in use.. and tbh its fun to fly them if you would have more fair engagements
with them.

yeah thats about it :-)
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#235 - 2012-03-29 14:26:26 UTC
Arrynoss wrote:
RL isn't a leg to stand on no.
I'm glad you agree. Now can we get rid of timers?
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#236 - 2012-03-31 12:21:38 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Quickly browsed through this thread, has good comments, most of them that were expressed during the round table.

Main things that stand out of this so far:


  • Cyno jammer: creates a lot of corner cases and is a very risky move as it affects alliances, FW pilots and neutrals unrelated to FW. Need to be seriously looked into, and made a lot more solid if it is going to be implemented

  • Over-designing FW: feedback expressed concerns about strapping a lot of consequences into a feature that may not be ready for them. Proposed idea was to start implementing stuff that made sense is approved by most of the players (LP for PvP kills, ranks, complex changes, fix issues with standings and notifications), see how it goes, then move ahead one step at a time. That would be a much prudent and wiser move in general.


I gathered quite a lot of notes from the FW round table as well, and there were good ideas being moved around. I'll talk with the other designers next week to see if we can have a look into this.

In all cases, many thanks for the discussion and comments, I really enjoyed the FW presentation questions / roundtable (even if it was a bit difficult to keep order at times P )

Yeah, sorry about that Blink

Glad to hear that you guys are taking it bit by bit. There is MUCH that can be done to fix FW now that we will love you for without throwing OMGWTFBBQ features at us just yet...
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#237 - 2012-03-31 12:57:54 UTC
It would be interesting if the boundaries of low-sec and high-sec were more fluid. Think about it. If Minmatar counquered all of Amarr low-sec would those .5 High-sec border regions not get panicked a little by the thought of the "barbarians at the gates". Might they not dip to .4 or lower based on said panic?? Cool
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#238 - 2012-03-31 13:00:19 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It would be interesting if the boundaries of low-sec and high-sec were more fluid. Think about it. If Minmatar counquered all of Amarr low-sec would those .5 High-sec border regions not get panicked a little by the thought of the "barbarians at the gates". Might they not dip to .4 or lower based on said panic?? Cool

That idea was floated at the round table. One of the things I suggested is that the war should effect the rest of empire since it is effectively the 4 empires at war via their militias...
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#239 - 2012-03-31 13:08:01 UTC
Har Harrison wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It would be interesting if the boundaries of low-sec and high-sec were more fluid. Think about it. If Minmatar counquered all of Amarr low-sec would those .5 High-sec border regions not get panicked a little by the thought of the "barbarians at the gates". Might they not dip to .4 or lower based on said panic?? Cool

That idea was floated at the round table. One of the things I suggested is that the war should effect the rest of empire since it is effectively the 4 empires at war via their militias...


Excellent. Was it floated by a player or by CCP? If the former how open was CCP to it?
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#240 - 2012-03-31 13:10:04 UTC
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
Har Harrison wrote:
Zarnak Wulf wrote:
It would be interesting if the boundaries of low-sec and high-sec were more fluid. Think about it. If Minmatar counquered all of Amarr low-sec would those .5 High-sec border regions not get panicked a little by the thought of the "barbarians at the gates". Might they not dip to .4 or lower based on said panic?? Cool

That idea was floated at the round table. One of the things I suggested is that the war should effect the rest of empire since it is effectively the 4 empires at war via their militias...


Excellent. Was it floated by a player or by CCP? If the former how open was CCP to it?

Player (one of my comments). It was noted I believe, but wasn't commented on since they need to think of the ramifications.