EVE General Discussion

Guys there is only one "funny" thing about ganking in hi-sec. i dont care about big ships like freighters but "funny " thing is how manny ppl quit this game because they were ganked...

Anyway I wish you great game

you mad at miners bro?

they are the guys who mine the ore to keep the price of your expendable tornado down

go and get a real fight in low sec or 0.0 where your targets will scram you shoot back

Rules say concord must kill you. This seems like an exploit. If you are using an exploit to gank somebody you don't get to whine about carebears when CCP fixes it. If the only way you can PvP is through use of an exploit than you fail at PvP.

CCP has known this for years. Hell, even I petitioned this trick back in 2006.

I think its honestly stupid that Concord is unable to 'get you' unless you let them if you are smart enough. Isn't trying to get away from the authorities a large part of the fun of comitting a crime?

Punish players for comitting a crime: sure. Making it difficult for them to commit the crime, I'm for it. Having them pay for the crime, also excellent. Having the players just sit there and let their ships be destroyed even though they are able to save them. That's just stupid.

Allow me to retort - to Misanth and other gutless alt-posters with similar nonsensical arguments. After all, I'm still here. I've not been banned or even warned. Pretty strange for an admitted 'exploiter', don't you think?

CCP clearly rewrote (oh, I mean 'clarified) the rules in this case. In fact, they did it TWICE within the space of a single thread. Go read the other thread, and don't play stupid like a typical carebear.

We are not talking about 'warping away from a gank'. (not an exploit)
We are not talking about 'warping repeatedly until GCC expires' (an exploit)
We are talking about "warping away and shooting again, then dying." (not an exploit before, exploit now after rule rewrite)

Let me repeat myself:
-Warping away from a gank-site is STILL legal, even after the GM's consideration

The practise of 'warping off grid after ganking' was well known for a long time and I never claimed to invent it.
The practice of 'warping off grid and shooting again' was known (and legal!) as well.
Goonswarm posted videos somewhere of themselves doing it with packs of 15 destroyers YEARS ago.
That a pretty good hint that (back then) it was 'not an exploit' - so long as you lost your ship.


What changed? Simple: The Tornado.
CCP simply didn't adequately consider the effects of combining Tempest alpha with Hurricane agility.
Very few players (or devs) made the logical leap to the golden intersection of:

-Warping mechanics
-1400MM reload cycle
-volleys which instapop (badly tanked) Exhumers
-3 second alignment times
-static Concord GCC behavior

Before, "warping off grid and shooting again" had little 'practical' application. Tempests were too clumsy, destroyers required large groups. Now - with the advent of the Tornado it had deadly consequences - as it could be executed solo.

Again, not because of any inherent 'programming flaw' or hax. Just using the tool provided, experience and good old Yankee ingenuity.

Once I posted the original primer, the tactic as applied to Tornados, became 'common knowledge' and more widely adopted.

My guess? CCP probably wasn't pleased with the tactic of chain-killing Exhumers. They probably figured they would simply quietly (and gutlessly) stealth-nerf at a later date, but hesitated to declare it an outright exploit.
Result: locked primer thread....then silence.

-THEN, amazingly the tactic evolved! Freighters started dying before they could complete the coding. (And I am not taking credit for that - that was an independent development that I had not considered. Props to the people who figured it out.)

CCP: "Oh ****. Get the axe." *breaks glass*

Thus, today's rule change. I mean "clarification". Yesterdays legal 'tactic' becomes today's exploit.
Why? Screaming freighter pilots and miners.

-Nevermind that miners could avoid chain-destruction by tanking or warping out.
-Nevermind that freighters are guaranteed to thwart these new attacks with a single Rifter escort!
The average Carebear is simply too stupid to do that, and sadly, CCP does not expect them to.

They aren't judging the tactics at all. They are only judging the end result.
Carebears die, carebears whine - and mechanics change. BIG carebears die, rules change so quickly your head spins.

After reading this... I have but one thing to say about the OP/topic/post...it comes from my days in the Army...a buddy of mine would say it to anyone when they could start to gripe, etc...

"WHAAAAAAAAAAAA... ma'pu$$y'urts!... "

Gut up, you want to gank this way - take the loss... man up and take your tornado in and... well grief, since this isn't a Gang Kill, it's a solo-grief kill... and then take Concord on the chin like a man with some stones.

Your lack of willingness to suffer your dues for that KM is as many say... pathetic...


...and, who says HS doesn't shoot back, someone tired this on me I would be in a HAC scramming them and blowing their raisins into the next constellation... Care-bears...NO... Care-Kodiac/Grizzlies...they shoot back, they come find you and trash your ass... don't assume that HS dwellers have no fangs and claws.

Hey Liang,

My reasoning is pretty simple, and most of this ground has been covered.

Carebears already have the tools they need to survive high-sec attacks, Tornados or otherwise.
They simply choose not to use them. Sometimes out of ignorance....
....but mainly because that would require effort . (Tanking, being aware, not autopiloting, teamwork beyond filling an Orca, etc)

Nevermind all that, though, right? Its just easier to just complain about it!
With a depressing regularity these days - CCP simply shapes the game to suit them, makes high-sec ever safer and reinforces those lazy practices. And who knows what is coming next? Crimewatch is just one more step in that direction.

My conclusion: CCP listens because there are simply too many of them paying subscriptions.

A 'pirate/griefer/whatever' COULD simply get mad and quit.
But thats a largely useless gesture that is roundly mocked on these forums. "Your stuff - can I haz?" etc....

Instead: better to make OTHER people quit, and have a much larger impact on CCP's subscription count.

So the strategy is changing:

-Ignore the obvious bots, stop petitioning/reporting them. Learn Russian and annoy people by denying they exist. Allow them to thrive.
Why? Their actions only hurt miners by having a large negative effect on their income - which is the same as my goal.

-Focus ganking resources - target and destroy 'real' miners, especially the young ones.
They are easy to identify. They chat, join real corps, have real names - and mine manually. Addressbook them and kill their assets repeatedly, even at a loss. LEVERAGE your deep pockets against them: it will hurt them FAR more than it hurts you.

-Make it hopeless for them, and make it personal. Turn their early 'sense of wonder and accomplishment' into a futile cycle of one-sided destruction and loss.

Why? EVE has a notoriously low retention rate below 3 months. This is where miner/hauler carebears are most vulnerable - already struggling with pangs of boredom due to poor PVE content. Its psychology. Breaking new ground 'in game' is exciting and players will tolerate a measure of boredom to do it. Forcing them into constant 'rebuilding', on the other hand, will seed frustration. Further, EVE's SP system often gives the false illusion that effectively fighting back is many months away.

Use that to your advantage! If gankers give them a push at this point, and create a sense of hopelessness: the victims simply say "Who needs this?" and give up.

Its not cruel - its politics. Less 'longterm' carebears voting with their wallet and idiotic viewpoints = less carebears for CCP to cater to at the game's expense.

No delusions. I know there will always be carebears and highly committed players. I'm just one person, have a career, and I can only 'flatline' a limited number of accounts per month.

But I just want to point out to the gankers out there: If you want to make a statement, don't get mad, don't quit. Complain to CCP if you wish, but accept that it is pointless. So act!

Adapt, and apply yourself. Methodically attack the true enemy: the carebears themselves!

By extinguishing their ships and their accounts, you multiply your effect on CCP's bottom line many times over.

It also takes a readjustment of so called PvPers attitudes.


There's so much whinning about it's the carebears, but in a lot of cases it's actually the griefer style PVPers that cause a lot of the changes because they take things to the extreme.


Edit: Although in the case of the point in question of this thread it's clearly an exploit so it's being mended not before time.

It's to efective

When I say personal, I don't mean:

"Bobby Joe Carebear" at 456 Jefferson Davis Blvd. in Shreveport. LA.
I'm not going over to his house, FFS. I don't care what he does in real life, in the privacy of his home, with or without animals.
I don't care what race he is. I don't care about his (or her) mental state. Its irrelevant to my concerns.

My concern is only to use legal tactics to encourage him to voluntarily hit the 'unsubscribe' button.
This will save EVE from his poisonous carebear existence.

When I say personal - I mean attack their in-game persona. Identify and record their in-game associations and friends.
Innocently chat with them with an alt - figure out if they are a 'real miner', or just an alt or a bot.
After you kill them, follow them. We have addressbooks and locator agents. Use them.

If they move several jumps to avoid you, follow them and and pop them again. Force them to dock up.
Hire your friends to kill them when you are busy - by placing an 'out of game' ISK bounty on them. (ie: not the broken 'in game' bounty system)

Consider it a 'suicide wardec' that has no Concord fee or expiration date - and it cannot be dec-shielded or 'evaded' by simply dropping into an NPC corp - as most miners tend to do when wardecced. Don't like it? Cry more and louder. That seems to work pretty well for your types. We just act.