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How to add terrain-effects to Eve game-play.
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Succub
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-03-30 19:08:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Succub
Hello all, I'm Succub. While chatting in the Caldari Provisions corp chat, an idea for adding some really nice terrain-effects came up. Simply put, it is implementation of terrain-substitutes such as Solar Flares, Radiation Fluxes, and etc. Some of this can be seen in the Recon mission where the environment deals damage to the ship at intervals and to complete you have to tank it and run for the gate.

So that is the mechanic which is already present in the game. The implementation could be focused on creating actual terrain-substitutes which would add another dimension to Eve and I think one that everyone would come to appreciate and enjoy if, and only if, it were implemented with the 'level-playing-field' principle at all stages.

Random Solar Flares could be used to intrude on the the environment and create opportunities for advanced game-play such as sneeking and peeking around storms in a system which itself is known for its many storms... I'm suggesting addition of such well-known phenomena that occur in real space (rs) sneeking and peeking around an environmental feature which is in fact a terrain-substitute.

It's very flexible and apparently already exists in game, just needs to be tweeked to provide the terrain-substitute effect I'm trying to describe.

So here is a copy of the chat convo, see what you all can add to it.

" Succub > hi all... so how many 'sciece-fiction starwars-defense' suggestions have we got from the fanfest? any drunk/laid ccp types coming up with anything good?
Eurus Ingram Enaka > lol?
Succub > nice weather we're having today, looks like ... space
Succub > be nice to have a few random solar flares and cosmic storms interfering once in a while, be more immersive
Succub > losing tgt lock because of solar flares... good idea
TDZ15 > O_O
Aleks81 Goblin > ?? ??? ???? ????)))
[17:46:51] Veni4ek > ????? ?? ??? =)
[17:46:56] Veni4ek > ?????*
[17:46:58] Eurus Ingram Enaka > or suddenly having your ship 'knocked out' for a few second during a magnetic storm
[17:47:12] TDZ15 > bad idea... D:
[17:48:07] Reiterpallasch > more like annoying
[17:49:00] Succub > if it happened to everyone at once, aincluding whoever else is there... then it might be a way to add some real fun... think of what wud happen with everyone not able to fight for 10 secs
[17:49:21] TDZ15 > that'll be fun xD
[17:49:22] Succub > oh sit, solar flare. ..
[17:49:51] TDZ15 > when the storm is over, all lock on to the biggest threat D:
[17:50:05] Eurus Ingram Enaka > or flee if youre getting destroyed
[17:50:13] TDZ15 > *locks on to shuttle*
[17:50:24] Reiterpallasch > i'd only accept that if radiation shielding modules became available
[17:50:33] Eurus Ingram Enaka > that t3 amarr shuttle is deadly bro
[17:51:04] Succub > yes shielding on ships... and mods... ... also thought maybe a weather forecast for systems.... some systems have more than others
[17:51:54] Succub > some systems you have to sneek and peek around the storms... adding terrain effects to the game
[17:53:05] Succub > just a thought... ill shut up now ?;-)
[17:53:22] TDZ15 > keep it comming
[17:53:27] TDZ15 > sounds interesting :D
[17:55:00] Succub > or maybe we cud have sneeking and peeking around planets... but i think the storms for terrain-substitute is better... much more flexible. ok now ill hush up
[17:57:36] Vendash > doesnt sound to bad
[17:58:16] Vendash > gives small haulers a nice bit of help in low sec :)
[18:00:15] Succub > hiding in a solar flare/storm? i dunno i actually kinda liike it also... after thinking abt it
[18:01:05] Vendash > opens up new fleet tactics all around aswell
[18:01:27] Vendash > lure a fleet into a storm or hide backups in a storm you cant scan in
[18:01:32] Succub > it wud be important to make sure the effects evebd out over time, meaning if my tgt gets away today cause of it, them i will get away tomorrow because of it... it has to be applied equally to even out
[18:02:57] Vendash > hmm
[18:03:03] Vendash > makes sense
[18:04:17] l3aal > there are no things such as a storm in space -.-
[18:04:21] l3aal > .. just radiation
[18:05:36] Reiterpallasch > you could have dust clouds that mask the presence of ships within, sorta like in homeworld 2
[18:06:31] Notagood negotiator > yo reiter you play armored core?
[18:06:55] Reiterpallasch > YES
[18:06:59] Eurus Ingram Enaka > ^
[18:07:07] Notagood negotiator > High five hahahaa
[18:07:12] Reiterpallasch > you're like the first person to notice
[18:07:19] Eurus Ingram Enaka > lol"

TY
p.s. - i started to remove the timestamps but too much trubble. Sry.
Welsige
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2012-03-30 20:32:22 UTC
Interesting, but wouldnt that warrant that things like LoS be implemented as well?

I mean, everything on the grid is fair play and can be targeted ans shot, no matter if theres a station or other objects in between. To sneak and peek, players would have to be unaware of the other's presence, wich the overview would spoil.

Now, the other things are interesting, like a hidding place in system, or disrutive fenomena that would interfere on the playfield.

It would be interesting if a fleet could also chose a better terrain position, like positioning it in a place of less interference so the attacked would be at a disavantage - like more interrupts.

[b]~ 10.058 ~

Free The Mittani[/b]
Kolya Medz
Kolya Inc.
#3 - 2012-03-31 00:22:07 UTC
I don't like the LoS idea. But "space weather" sounds interesting. Then you have to ask, is it random or do some areas have better weather than others.
Succub
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-03-31 04:20:48 UTC
Welsige wrote:
Interesting, but wouldnt that warrant that things like LoS be implemented as well?

I mean, everything on the grid is fair play and can be targeted ans shot, no matter if theres a station or other objects in between. To sneak and peek, players would have to be unaware of the other's presence, wich the overview would spoil.

Now, the other things are interesting, like a hidding place in system, or disrutive fenomena that would interfere on the playfield.

It would be interesting if a fleet could also chose a better terrain position, like positioning it in a place of less interference so the attacked would be at a disavantage - like more interrupts.


I think you hit right on something there. The LoS may be problematic, so implementing that may be a step in the wrong direction. Meanwhile, the other point you made is more along the lines of where my own "following the thread" imaginings went. So LoS might not be needed, but the effects of being able to hide a fleet in a huge cloud of dust where they could not be scanned down. yeah we know they're in there but the only way to get them is to go in and get within visual range... and maybe even the visual range is limited in some fashion. Using the effects of the phenomena to create a terrain-substutute is exactly where this seems to be going. Good point...
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#5 - 2012-03-31 05:44:27 UTC
LoS is how you break up blobs, but it is non-trivial to implement.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Eidric
Private Shelter for Mad People
#6 - 2012-03-31 07:13:27 UTC
Main problem with space weather - how often does it happen?
Effects should be rare enough to warrant leaving ships "unprepared" but at the same time visible to a larger community, Not just people present within the solar system.


Perhaps With similar messages as incursions,
Or even galaxy wide "weather" with proper weather forecast's =)


Although atm I fear this is more wishful thinking - as of now there are many thing that need iteration on before CCP would start implementing something this large.
Succub
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#7 - 2012-03-31 19:15:00 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
LoS is how you break up blobs, but it is non-trivial to implement.

I thought about that some more and thunk 'yknow, it really wud be a nice feature, to have los around stuff, then it wud be more like the 3-D terrain effect that was running around just below my conscious thought level' ...

Eidric wrote:
Although atm I fear this is more wishful thinking - as of now there are many thing that need iteration on before CCP would start implementing something this large.

Well if CCP does, I have the name for the release ready... let's call it "The Universe Strikes Back!" ... ?;-)
Buzzy Warstl
Quantum Flux Foundry
#8 - 2012-03-31 19:20:18 UTC
Succub wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
LoS is how you break up blobs, but it is non-trivial to implement.

I thought about that some more and thunk 'yknow, it really wud be a nice feature, to have los around stuff, then it wud be more like the 3-D terrain effect that was running around just below my conscious thought level' ...



On the good news front, check out the tesselation presentation. Some folks at CCP are laying the groundwork that will make a more realistic space environment possible in future releases.

http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm Richard Bartle: Players who suit MUDs
Succub
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#9 - 2012-03-31 19:39:37 UTC
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
Succub wrote:
Buzzy Warstl wrote:
LoS is how you break up blobs, but it is non-trivial to implement.

I thought about that some more and thunk 'yknow, it really wud be a nice feature, to have los around stuff, then it wud be more like the 3-D terrain effect that was running around just below my conscious thought level' ...



On the good news front, check out the tesselation presentation. Some folks at CCP are laying the groundwork that will make a more realistic space environment possible in future releases.


Thanks for the info. Ill go ahead and put the link to the youtube video here for everyone else to see. Looks great and looks like the addition of 3-D Terrain to Eve is a possibility after all. Let's put the tesselation and phys-X to work for us! Thanks again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7oaz8mWug
Choc talar
Blazing Capsules
Brave Collective
#10 - 2012-04-01 02:44:37 UTC
This idea could add a lot to things like mining etc.

Develop shields that offer extended protection against space phenomena and than you could safely mine in storm for a time, but only with said shields. Could also be done for missions.

It makes sense that a pirate organization would hide an outpost in a dangerous portion of space as they have developed a way to shield against it. Once a ship is destroyed a BPO could drop for said shield tech and then manufactured by the player base.
Research could also be done to adapt said shield to a POS and allow players to oust said pirate faction and place POS with new shield tech in plasma storm, nebula radiation, etc.

As player corps begin to hold these dangerous areas of space it would add a new dimension to wars as the attacking corp would have to develop the same shielding tech before it becomes feasible for them to attack.

Just my 2 cents anyway.
Succub
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2012-04-03 05:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Succub
Choc talar wrote:
This idea could add a lot to things like mining etc.

Develop shields that offer extended protection against space phenomena and than you could safely mine in storm for a time, but only with said shields. Could also be done for missions.

It makes sense that a pirate organization would hide an outpost in a dangerous portion of space as they have developed a way to shield against it. Once a ship is destroyed a BPO could drop for said shield tech and then manufactured by the player base.
Research could also be done to adapt said shield to a POS and allow players to oust said pirate faction and place POS with new shield tech in plasma storm, nebula radiation, etc.

As player corps begin to hold these dangerous areas of space it would add a new dimension to wars as the attacking corp would have to develop the same shielding tech before it becomes feasible for them to attack.

Just my 2 cents anyway.


I like all those myself, dunno what anyone else thinks... like to hear though. As I've been thinking more about this the LOS in asteroid belts is the only small-scale example I could think of that everyone could understand. Addition of the tesselation and phys-x looks like a candidate to create a situation where for instance a miner could actually get away from attacking pirates by hiding behind a large roid, which blockee their LOS and therefore their scramblers etc... for just a few seconds as they moved in to a better position to get a clear shot at the miner. Just ramp that same scenario's principles up to any scale in any situation and there we have it, the most fantastic game on planet earth with real strategy and tactics... not just a bunch of wannabe's shooting thru a kilometer of rock with their "magic guns" ... which to me is pretty low scale but that's my personal opine.