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A Sandbox Request: Allow Bombs and Bubbles in High-Sec
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#21 - 2012-03-30 21:18:44 UTC
THE L0CK wrote:
If high is cyno-jam by the npc's then isn't it pretty obvious that its bubble jammed as well?

I'm not sure how you can jam a bubble, but even if it's made possible from a RP perspective, "jamming" doesn't stop a big ol' boom-boom from exploding.

Herping yourDerp wrote:
uh -10 player on jita undock
uses orca to get bomber fires bomb
again, and again

same with bubbles
bubble somewhere, ok you died but i'm still stuck in a bubble.

No different from the -10 player being able to fire a 1400mm volley.

Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Bubbling would result in a CONCORD response if any neutral ship touches the bubble. Interdictors are expensive.



But Un-ganged Neutrals aren't affected and are free to scan.

And the person who bubbled just lost a 50-million-ISK ship.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Killer Gandry
The Concilium Enterprises
#22 - 2012-03-30 21:21:29 UTC
I want an I-Win button in my ship.
Bootleg Jack
ACME Mineral and Gas
#23 - 2012-03-30 21:22:53 UTC
Herping yourDerp wrote:
i think bombs should be allowed in lowsec, but that's it. bubbles stay in null, no bombs in highsec.

This

I'm an American, English is my second language...
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#24 - 2012-03-30 21:28:33 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Bubbling would result in a CONCORD response if any neutral ship touches the bubble. Interdictors are expensive.



But Un-ganged Neutrals aren't affected and are free to scan.

And the person who bubbled just lost a 50-million-ISK ship.



That's all? I buy 60 mil BC's like it's a firesale. And with the potential billions that youll be stopping short of the gate I would have to say the trade off is totally worth it, especially when your -10 jumps into his bomb launched bomber.

didn't take too long to put 2 and 2 together on that one.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#25 - 2012-03-30 21:32:05 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Not being able to launch a bomb in hisec never made any sense. There's a red button on my dashboard. Why can't I mash buttan? Maybe have launching a bomb cause instant GCC instead.

Absolutely.

Nick Bison wrote:
Uhhh really ... so every HiSec gate can be bubbled so you can scan every ship coming thru ?
Big fat no.

Bubbling would result in a CONCORD response if any neutral ship touches the bubble. Interdictors are expensive.


Dictors and Hictors are expensive, anchorable bubbles are not.

Just not sure the whole purpose of allowing bubbles in HS.
As you stated, CONCORD should just be popping them (or the ship) the first time a neut hits one

Nothing clever at this time.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#26 - 2012-03-30 21:32:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
You don't need bubbles to scan ships, and you don't need bubbles to tackle ships at gates.

To everyone else: keep in mind that I'm all for keeping the current safety mechanisms for AoE weapons for bombs. You wouldn't be able to bomb too close to a gate or station due to the "at 0" element. However, people off-range or in belts/deadspace should be fair game.

Why should smartbombs and ECM bursts be allowed, but not bombs?

Nick Bison wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
[quote=PotatoOverdose]Not being able to launch a bomb in hisec never made any sense. There's a red button on my dashboard. Why can't I mash buttan? Maybe have launching a bomb cause instant GCC instead.

Absolutely.

[quote=Nick Bison]Dictors and Hictors are expensive, anchorable bubbles are not.

Just not sure the whole purpose of allowing bubbles in HS.
As you stated, CONCORD should just be popping them (or the ship) the first time a neut hits one

As is, you can't anchor things in .8+ anyway. They can simply extend current rules to .5 and above.

And just because something is inefficient, shouldn't mean that it's arbitrarily disallowed.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Cat Scratch Fevers
#27 - 2012-03-30 21:42:35 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
You don't need bubbles to scan ships, and you don't need bubbles to tackle ships at gates.

To everyone else: keep in mind that I'm all for keeping the current safety mechanisms for AoE weapons for bombs. You wouldn't be able to bomb too close to a gate or station due to the "at 0" element. However, people off-range or in belts/deadspace should be fair game.

Why should smartbombs and ECM bursts be allowed, but not bombs?

Nick Bison wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
[quote=PotatoOverdose]Not being able to launch a bomb in hisec never made any sense. There's a red button on my dashboard. Why can't I mash buttan? Maybe have launching a bomb cause instant GCC instead.

Absolutely.

[quote=Nick Bison]Dictors and Hictors are expensive, anchorable bubbles are not.

Just not sure the whole purpose of allowing bubbles in HS.
As you stated, CONCORD should just be popping them (or the ship) the first time a neut hits one

As is, you can't anchor things in .8+ anyway. They can simply extend current rules to .5 and above.

And just because something is inefficient, shouldn't mean that it's arbitrarily disallowed.


It's not inefficient, it's a matter of smart-bombs and ECM burst are mounted on your ship and therefore, you accept the risk of CONCORD if you hit a neut or something, once a bubble is anchored, does CONCORD just kill the bubble and let the person who anchored go about their business.

Seems to be a "no risk" method of a ganker getting a ship who is warping-to-zero to stop may KM from a gate ....

Nothing clever at this time.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#28 - 2012-03-30 21:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Nick Bison wrote:
It's not inefficient, it's a matter of smart-bombs and ECM burst are mounted on your ship and therefore, you accept the risk of CONCORD if you hit a neut or something, once a bubble is anchored, does CONCORD just kill the bubble and let the person who anchored go about their business.

Seems to be a "no risk" method of a ganker getting a ship who is warping-to-zero to stop may KM from a gate ....

My thread's request deals specifically with bomb launchers and interdictor/heavy interdictor bubbles.

If I have to address the anchored bubbles issue, then I simply suggest that the same anchoring rules apply to all areas of high-sec space. Either disallow anchoring completely, or allow it completely. If it's the latter, then CONCORD should treat anchored bubbles in the same manner that it treats ship bubbles; pop the perp if any neutral player ship touches the bubble, and the bubble itself.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Rico Minali
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-03-30 21:48:34 UTC
Masamune Dekoro wrote:
This is fine, as long as -10.0 sec players are ganked and podded by Concord upon entering highsec. Fair enough?


They are ganked by concord. Not podded though, but you are free to do that yourself if you like, as is anyone else in teh game. You do know you can kill flashy reds anywhere without penalty right? Or is that you just dont want to take teh risk yourself?

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#30 - 2012-03-30 21:53:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Micheal Dietrich
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Nick Bison wrote:
It's not inefficient, it's a matter of smart-bombs and ECM burst are mounted on your ship and therefore, you accept the risk of CONCORD if you hit a neut or something, once a bubble is anchored, does CONCORD just kill the bubble and let the person who anchored go about their business.

Seems to be a "no risk" method of a ganker getting a ship who is warping-to-zero to stop may KM from a gate ....

My thread's request deals specifically with bomb launchers and interdictor/heavy interdictor bubbles.

If I have to address the anchored bubbles issue, then I simply suggest that the same anchoring rules apply to all areas of high-sec space. Either disallow anchoring completely, or allow it completely. If it's the latter, then CONCORD should treat anchored bubbles in the same manner that it treats ship bubbles; pop the perp if any neutral player ship touches the bubble, and the bubble itself.



Stations, additional pos buildings, and sealed containers are not directly blocking space lanes or interrupting other players. Bubbles will. And I personally don't feel like being stopped at every single freaking gate as I'm trying to quickly get across the system to help a corpmate out.

This is just a lazy suiciders camp.

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2012-03-30 21:55:56 UTC
When I was a kid, I don't remember my sandbox being placed in a minefield.

Bombs should find a way into low but there is no purpose for them hi-sec. Bubbles should stay in null. There is no clear RP reason for this but there is a gameplay reason for it.

Bombs, as you know are meant to blow up a bunch of ships at once (in a nutshell). The problem with putting these in hi-sec is that it would completely unbalance the game. Entire missions could be cleared with just a few bombing runs and suicide ganking would reach the point where getting ganked has less to do with not paying attention and more to do with getting spawn killed every time you undock in any ship.

Bubbles are meant to restrict movement. Can you imagine how disastrous that would be in a busy place like hi-sec? Pop out large bubbles at the trade hubs and the economy essentially grinds to a halt. This paired with bombs can turn hi-sec into a WWI battlefield, everytime you leave the trench (station) you get blown up or shot.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#32 - 2012-03-30 21:57:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Stations, additional pos buildings, and sealed containers are not directly blocking space lanes or interrupting other players. Bubbles will. And I personally don't feel like being stopped at every single freaking gate as I'm trying to quickly get across the system to help a corpmate out.

And the ability to bubble you, at the expense of my ship, is an exact counter to your ability to rush to another location uninhibited.

Suicide-ganking blocks space lanes and interrupts other players. However, it is allowed. Why should bombs and bubbles be disallowed on similar grounds?

@Fredfredbug4: Please read the OP carefully, and the remainder of my posts, to see why the situations you describe would essentially be impossible.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Acac Sunflyier
The Ascended Academy
#33 - 2012-03-30 22:00:36 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
A few recent changes to game play mechanics have been a bit detrimental to the innovation-rewarding nature of the game.



I like that you start off the basis of your request with a declaration without going into detail as to what these changes are. This would be very important, considering that this is the basis for your whole argument.
Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2012-03-30 22:01:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Nedes Betternaem
I am a pirate, and I am tired of having to deal with CONCORD and all these rules that prevent me from having instant IWIN buttons! Why should all these people have more stuff than me? It all belongs to me, me me me me me. And no I shouldn't have to work for it, I am obviously a better player than everyone else and deserve their stuff with little to no effort from me.

CCP why are you so ignorant of my obvious superiority to everyone else? I deserve and am entitled to everything everyone else has, and everyone who plays this game only plays to ensure my happiness... CCP you just don't get the hint.
FloppieTheBanjoClown
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
#35 - 2012-03-30 22:03:02 UTC
Bombs in Jita. There's a good idea.

Founding member of the Belligerent Undesirables movement.
Micheal Dietrich
Kings Gambit Black
#36 - 2012-03-30 22:04:20 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Stations, additional pos buildings, and sealed containers are not directly blocking space lanes or interrupting other players. Bubbles will. And I personally don't feel like being stopped at every single freaking gate as I'm trying to quickly get across the system to help a corpmate out.

And the ability to bubble you, at the expense of my ship, is an exact counter to your ability to rush to another location uninhibited.

Suicide-ganking blocks space lanes and interrupts other players. However, it is allowed. Why should bombs and bubbles be disallowed on similar grounds?



Current suicide ganks don't block nearly the amount of people that a bubble would and you know that. It would be like fish in a barrel.

And I can't believe you are still trying to pull ship cost. 50 mil is nothing when you destroy a 1 bil freighter carrying several bil in goods. Even if it was a big deal it certainly would not be counter to being stopped at every gate between Jita and Amarr.

Concorde pops the bubble on first nuetral throug it, how does that sound?

Out of Pod is getting In the Pod - Join in game channel **IG OOPE **
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#37 - 2012-03-30 22:06:26 UTC
Might as well argue to just remove concord alltogether!

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#38 - 2012-03-30 22:09:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Acac Sunflyier wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
A few recent changes to game play mechanics have been a bit detrimental to the innovation-rewarding nature of the game.



I like that you start off the basis of your request with a declaration without going into detail as to what these changes are. This would be very important, considering that this is the basis for your whole argument.

That line might set the tone for, but is definitely not the basis of my argument. I am simply making an argument for fairness, which the recent changes, such as the "boomerang method," address. These changes are fair.

Either way, this thread is simply an expression of a want, and not a concrete demand. I am not exactly throwing a tantrum because the majority is disagreeing with me. In fact I will be quite satisfied if people provide concise, rational arguments for why my proposal is detrimental to the game. Of course this will not stop the majority of people from barfing out memes and "htfu" replies, even though I am not personally vested in this proposal, which I made simply to have a decent discussion of the merits of certain game play mechanics.

Micheal Dietrich wrote:
Current suicide ganks don't block nearly the amount of people that a bubble would and you know that. It would be like fish in a barrel.

And I can't believe you are still trying to pull ship cost. 50 mil is nothing when you destroy a 1 bil freighter carrying several bil in goods. Even if it was a big deal it certainly would not be counter to being stopped at every gate between Jita and Amarr.

Concorde pops the bubble on first nuetral throug it, how does that sound?

A bubble is also not a direct cause of death for everyone trapped in it, but at most a two-minute hindrance of their movement. Besides, what kills the freighter isn't the bubble, but direct firepower. A bunch of Tornadoes will pop that freighter regardless of whether it gets tackled or not.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#39 - 2012-03-30 22:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Tarryn Nightstorm
Bombs, yes:

They are, mechanically, just another AoE effect, and we can already use others like smart-bombs and ECM Bursts (trust me, the latter will guarantee you get lolololCONCORDokken'ed--thank you, falloff modifier for E-War effects!), so why not bombs?

Bubbles, not just no, but **** no! (Waaaaay too OP in hisec, IMHO, and way too "easy-mode" in general. Gate-camping is already too easy, in my view, and too much a "default" for too many people--example, those lame-ass punks in Rancer--this will only encourage more of it. Not a good thing, in my view.)

Also, one thing I've always pushed for: Allowing covert-cynos and bridging to/between in hisec.

[lolRP] It is not implied anywhere in the lore that CONCORD's hisec cyno-jammers are any different than capsuleer-owned ones[/lolRP], yet BLOPs can bypass the latter, so there is at least an implied reason, assuming that lore-assumption is correct.

That, plus this new generation of pathetic, over-entitled, screaming little crybears need to discover the fun of cloaked torpedo-murder appearing out of nowhere.Twisted

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
#40 - 2012-03-30 22:17:11 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Might as well argue to just remove concord alltogether!


Why not?

Star Wars: the Old Republic may not be EVE. But I'll take the sound of dual blaster-pistols over "NURVV CLAOKING NAOW!!!11oneone!!" any day of the week.