Science & Industry

Well BPO building won't disappear from HighSec that's for sure. So T2 will stay in HighSec. But they might add a component to T2 that can't be build in HighSec.

They already do. Many t2 items require reactions to produce some of the base materials. This can only be done in low sec or wormholes. Additionally, those base materials require moon Goo from low and nul sec.

So what hit would happen? How much t2 production occurs in nul? I get the impression that people think nul sec alliances are these great industrial juggernauts cramming out t2 modules and ships. Perhaps for some of the largest groups. However most people in nul want to just fight and enjoy the area.

Additionally, moving all t2 production to nul would destroy the t2 ammo industry. It takes a week for one character to make 500k t2 heavy missiles. 3/4 of a week if you use an ammo assembly array. One player alone grinding missions in a tengu could clear 50k missiles in a week easily. Basically, you need both hi and nul sec to keep missiles in supply alone.

Sorry, though we may see a shift in some datacores to faction warfare, I doubt you will see a major change to t2 production unless ccp has a way to replace the many hi sec industrialist who would simply move to a new game.

This is the nut of it.
We know a small percentage of the null sec zealots want to completely wipe out high sec.
They don't care what would happen to the subscription base, nor the playability of the game.

There are also a portion of the null sec base that recognize the value of high sec T2 mfg.

But more and more, you see the chorus of "destroy high sec at all costs" growing louder and louder.
Will the null sec dominated CSM push this agenda?
Will the CCP dev team listen to them?
Will the CCP marketing team shoot the dev team if the dev team brings this up in a meeting?

That is is the ultimate question.
It may be death by a thousand cuts, which seems to be the approach Soundwave is taking, starting with the datacore mechanic destruction and the increased empire transaction taxes.

Rightly or wrongly, I think that the large null sec alliances have decided out that they CAN survive self-contained in null sec, or think they could support their alliances' requirements through low sec mfg . Based on that, they have unleashed their propaganda machine on the forums asking for cut after cut to high sec profitability.

They could indeed, and that suggestion is not entirely unreasonable.
But what you suggest will not stop the fanatics.

But the more I examine this, the more anti-high sec rants I read, the more I am convinced that the total destruction of high sec profitability is the goal of a significant, and more importantly, a powerful group inside the player base and within CCP.

I personally think it is financial suicide for CCP, but we have seen them make huge blunders in the recent past.

Yes, I and a lot of others would simply say "screw it" and leave. Your average industrialist who is serious about the game probably uses 3+ accounts. Some of them use 10+ accounts.

Look the current state of t2 moon goo is a yoke on EVERYONE. Ring mining or whatever will increase the supply of t2 goods to people who otherwise can't afford things like jump freighters.

If they moved ring mining (or some other mechanic) into 0.0, it means the mineral transport back to empire could add that transport cost to the price, but I don't see how it'd end up any different to the ABC ores today. Megacyte/Zydrine are used in empire constantly (almost exclusively).

I don't see the issue?

Perhaps ring mining isn't what you're talking about OP?

No, I am not talking about ring mining.
I am talking about the destruction of the R&D agent giving datacores, the increased transaction taxes in high sec, and the whispers (nothing confirmed but I am betting on it) of T2 mfg being banned from high sec.
I also am not smart enough to know if the changes to war dec'ing are going to be good or bad for high sec industrial corps.

As for ring mining, I look at it this way: the valuable stuff will still reside in null sec. Indeed, enterprising and brave people will now be able to ninja the stuff out. But overall, I just look at this as a redistribution of the wealth in null sec, not as an improvement in high sec profitability.

Yeah agreed about the ring mining, but at least it will bring prices of things like tech down. Something like 50-80% of the jump freighter price is JUST technetium. Think about that.

Whispers are hard to comment on. I think "banning" any kind of gameplay is bad (sandbox!) without some reason behind it.

CCP continue to screw the pooch regarding R&D agents, pretty much everything they have ever done with these guys has been "bad" t2 bpo's and now getting rid of datacores - personally I just got my research agent management skill up and got a few more. It's not even a lot of income, i want to use them for t2 production myself, and really now they are telling me it's just a waste.

I fail to see how wasting my time/money/isk is not the same as removing t2 bpo's and wasting someone else's time/money/isk. Anyhow, that is as it is. (Can probably tell by my attitude that I don't have a lot of faith when it comes to this particular subject).

Like I've said many times in many threads, mail the CSM members. People like trebor, seleene, two step and hans are pretty open to discussion regarding these things. I too agree CCP needs to have a hard look at industry.

I'd further ask you guys to ask for an industrial expansion. Not just implement change X. The reason is that one thing effects another. The whole system of production needs to be looked at in my opinion, and not just the clickfest, but the actual POS fuel costs, POS refining, low-sec mining, all these things don't hang together well at present.

They keep introducing changes as if that change won't effect some far flung mechanic that will break someone's ability to run production at all. It needs a hard look.

I'm not saying it'd be an easy job either - the main reason I think CCP would dig in their heels about doing it.

For instance raising taxes - I think will break the backs of some producers - on top of the pos fuel hike over the past couple of years (it has more than doubled) t2 goods are becoming volatile, the market stability really does effect peoples' ability to run these systems.

Without datacore and easier moon mat access in 0.0, T2 will stay in high sec. Kind of annoying actually. I would like it to be viable in both locations.

Datacores are possibly being added to faction warfare stores, and a reduction in normal r&d output. This is not a total removeal of datacores in hi sec, just a shift in current sources. Get a grip. That alone would not kill t2 production.