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This is bullshit!!!
Because attacker does not have commitment at all.
He just don't pay and its over.

This all is one big bullshit.

The whole thing needs an overhaul:

1) Wardecs need a goal. Holy god do they need a goal. Infinite cheap warfare just isn't cool.
a) Goals need to be well defined..Damage inflicted in isk. (required)..Isk Exchanged (optional)..Time Limit (required) vacating space (optional)
b) Mutual warfare needs to be supported as it is, and in this case war is not so much 'declared' as 'asked nicely' But mutual wars may have any of the above goals.

2) How to get end a war.
a) Wars go away when the aggressor meets one of his stated goals (Damage inflicted, space cleared, or time limit reached as calculated at downtime)
b) The defender 'wins' the war. By achieving a percentage of the stated goal. The higher the percentage required for the defender to win the war, the more expensive the war.
c) Wars can be mutually ended through the surrender mechanic.
d) War time ends.
e) Note, after 'war time ends' war goes into 'cooldown' for 7 days. Even in the event of a surrender. This prevents immediate redeclarations as well as preventing corporation movement as the war will still be 'active'. (See the next section)
f) Mutual wars may be ended by either side at any time unless goals are enforced, at which point a surrender must be negotiated.

3) Corp hopping, corp movement.
a) Membership in both corps needs to controlled. 24 hours to join and leave for all parties (You need to give time for the extra paperwork to go through concord to include/exclude the pilot from the original bribe) (Doesn't count if wars are mutual)
b) No re-joining during an active war! You leave a corp at war, you cannot rejoin anyone associated with that war until that war ends. (Again, the guy you are bribing will not be pleased about more paperwork) (Doesn't count if war is mutual)
c) Free movement between corporations at war in the same 'wardec' on either side.
d) Attacking corporations may not join an alliance while they have an active wardec.
e) Defending corporations may join an alliance at any time with the current join alliance mechanics.
f) Corporations in a defending alliance may *not* leave the alliance if they have hard assets in space to be vacated.

4) Getting help.
a) Defenders may hire on mercs to 'join the war' using the discussed contract methods.
b) Mercs joining in this fashion are stuck in the war until it is finished just like the defending entity.
c) Extra defending mercs do not effect the size of the goals, but kills on the mercs do count towards meeting the goals. As do kills by the mercs add to the defenders totals towards ending the war.

4) War and More War Details
a) Once the war gets taken to an alliance level. Corporations leaving the alliance will inherit the war, as well as a percentage of the goals by size (size by pilot (active (logged in in the past month), non-slot-alt, non-trial)). If part of the stated goal is to vacate space, the corporations leaving will immediately succeed in that goal.
b) As corporations leave the alliance. The alliance level goal (the initial goal) does not drop.

5) Tax.
a) Both corps/alliances are slapped with a 10% tax on top of their corp tax. All fundage goes into escrow per pilot. Tax also takes from insurance payouts (Because of this, corporation tax is capped at 90% during war, no wallet draining please) and buy/sell orders. (Made or adjusted post wardec including corp orders)
b) Corporations who leave alliances forfeit the escrow of all their members taxes and the corporate tax to the opposing team.
c) Players who leave corporations forfeit their escrow to the opposing team.
d) The 'winner' of the war gets the 'losers' escrow.
e) If war time ends, whoever is closer to their stated goals is declared the winner. In the event of a tie, the aggressor wins.
f) This tax is optional for mutual wars.
g) New defenders (As per the newly discussed contract mechanics) do *not* pay this tax. But the cost of the contract is taxed of course and added to the escrow.
h) Joining alliance *does* cause the alliance to get the new tax...so watch out!

6) Vacating space
a) Space is 'vacated' if no hard assets (POS, TCU) are anchored in target system and no 'active' pilots are docked/present in the system at downtime.

6) Costs.
a) Mutual wars are free.
b) Base 2 million per corporation...*PER DAY* For a war at which the defender must meet 25% of the stated goal for it to win.
c) Add 500k per 5% increase in goal. *PER DAY*
d) Space clearing goals add extra charges. 5 mil/system/day 10mil/constellation/day 50mil/region/day

So let's add some concrete examples:

I want to take over a couple moons in a highsec system because it would be convenient. Hire a merc:

Merc selects a large damage inflicted amount. And 'clear space' of the system in particular. They think they will only need a few days to blow the towers even with max stront.

So they pick four days. And they are convinced that the defenders are not going to put up much of a fight and leave the 'defender win' at 25%

War costs 2 mil for base...Plus 2 mil for clearing out a system... for four days. 4 mil x 4 days = 16 mil wardec fee...all up front.

War is declared. The R&D corp immediately clears the moons out and all their members bug out of system and go and hide. War ends 24 hours after. Client happy...Merc happy..Guys who had to move their tower aren't happy. But since the war was short, the extra 10% tax probably did not ruffle a feather and is extra bonus for Merc.

Now, let's say the defenders yell FFFFFUUUUU! and hire on mercs. And the mercs #2 start wiping the floor with the original mercs. Even if they are just holding their own, they only need to inflict 25% of the damage they are receiving to break even on the 'winning the war' front.

After four days, the defenders win because they are 'closer' to the stated goals. All the escrow amounts go to the defenders. Every battleship kill, 10% surtax on every replacement ship, module, and ammo purchased. (That 10% can go to pay merc #2 their damage bonus if they negotiated one.)

Another scenario:

Want to do corp war brackets? Sure. Two corps agree they are going to duke it out for GLORY and PRIZES!

Mutual wardec so it is free...Reasonable damage goal set for 7 days. 100% of stated goal is selected for the defender to 'win'. And it is a race. First corp to make damage wins. Or the one who is closer wins at the end of seven days.

Since CCP is going through all the trouble to make war reports. Let's do something with the data.

Adding goals gives a sieged corp a way out, and a light at the end of the tunnel. I can't just keep declaring on them over and over and over with the same corporation. (Now, if you're going to 'Mirage' it and have a dozen corporations chain decing the same entity...well...Maybe a harassment petition is in order.)

I won't lie. I've got some problems with my own solution. Mostly because it doesn't give me a nice free-form 'I'm going to keep investigating you because you are awful and I want to make sure you never lead another set of guys again' option.

And of course. I just thought of a probably common scenario regarding the 10% tax. Which involves multiple decs at once. And of course, you cannot just continually stack 10% taxes. So the escrow amounts get paid out at war 'end' time. The percentage of the escrow is dependent on comparing the goals and how much damage was caused. So someone cannot just start a short war in the middle of yours to steal the escrow amounts. (Unless they come in and completely annihilate the target).

So you guys don't see a reason to support merc corps. Thanks for making that clear.

The new war dec costs bring an abrupt end to the ability of smaller corps to impact 0.0 corps/alliances who have operations in high/low sec.

Once upon a time, a dedicated 10 man corp could annoy the hell out of a 0.0 alliance by attacking high/low sec supply lines. Guess that's too bothersome to the 0.0 blocks, so must be done away with.

Also, RvB gets raped badly by this.

CALLING FOR ARMS

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to all small and medium
manufactor and miners lets
show cpp what happens when
we arent getting heard
so if the war mechanism gets launched the way they want it to work
lets stop all productions on ships and mineral grinding and
se how far the game will be affected by us stop selling and production in 14days after
expansion launch

maybe we even see eve invated by shuttles

Dear Internet Spaceship Historians,

I went back in time to 2004 and found a corp who's members barely left their trial and as such where not overly capable. Just to find out what wardecs (no decshield back then) are about. The forum back then is quite different from what we see today. The general consensus was that a wardec is simply something that happens to corps and that they just mount some frigs and fight back. Seams that was actually working for them.

There is something wrong with EVE but it's not the wardec system.

EDIT: I would like to add that because you could declare war on noobs the game never made any profit and CCP went bankrupt at the end of 2004.

Hello

After watching the Fanfest War Dec presentation and reading blog i gave one problem with wining/loosing wars.

The concept is that, war report states only kills/loses ratio to the public which is cool. My problem is that war not always resolves around pawning poor noobs but rather completing set of goals. For example: pirate corp want to spoil enemy PVE, and get as many kills as possible. Defender corp objective would be to protect assets (hi sec POS can be expensive at time), save PVE capabilities, while not really care about losses.

Large 0.0 alliance want to conquer star system that is important propaganda wise. They may want to loose few fleets just to brag that they can dine in middle of enemy territory. On the flip side defender may want to kill a titan, take expensive moon or sth as counter measure.

I would like to see a list of predefined yes/no goals that server can easily track. System were conquered? POS survived war? scored more kills? Killed marked character? Titan was destroyed? list can go on... Corp can select many goals but those wold be counted as less important.

When war is declared and fee paid both sides would receive survey. Goals selected would be confidential (at least till spy do his job).Results - goal scored or not - would be written on final report and war result is evaluated from that.

Discuss

Darnok Iksnibiks

Criminal seems a little harsh, but they sure as hell should be engageable as a new war target (probably on a timer) by the opposing side. (Suspect flag means engageable by everyone under new crimewatch.)

I think it just goes to show what an old argument this is. I got here around 2006 and saw these same back and forths then.. the sky is always falling and EvE is always dieing....

Though the link did highlight one significant change, scale. At the time the power imbalance was that that big, everyone was still fairly new. Over time though we have had an increasing consolidation of power that has locked a lot of that early experience off from today's new players, and I think it is that change that many people are latching on to here. I mean seriously, can you see, today, '80 frigages' getting deep into null and having an impact on one of the big alliances?

Other then that, the discussion looks exactly like what we see today... same basic complaints, same basic advice.